[MGSA-L] Greek Deputy Minister of Education on the Holocaust and the Asia Minor Catastrophe

Vladimir Boskovic vladimir.d.boskovic at gmail.com
Mon Sep 19 12:51:10 PDT 2016


The claim is not ridiculous. The person responsible for the greatest plight of Jews in history was democratically elected in a Western state. Maybe people he annihilated would have preferred, like some Jewish communities did back in 1492, to live in Turkey or Russia, no matter how bad the conditions are? We'll never know. But Eastern and Southeastern Europe (Turkey included) always comes handy when one feels like being racist without consequences. 

Also, good that you know what "all those Jews" think and feel. Kindly share (what must be) your rich archives with the rest of us. 

Best,
Vladimir

P.S. Signing your name would be polite. 


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 19, 2016, at 12:57 PM, cvrhasd at tx.technion.ac.il wrote:
> 
> The claim that Russia has a much better historical record in treating its jewish minority than the "western democracies" (of today ?) is a ridiculous one - anyway all those jews who left Russia in its different regimes for Western democracies certainly do not agree  ...
> 
> Quoting Vladimir Boskovic <vladimir.d.boskovic at gmail.com>:
> 
>> I would personally be very happy if Greece would compare itself to Turkey and Russia. May I kindly remind you that both countries have substantially better historical record of treating their Jewish populations compared to "Western democracies" (and that such fetishizing the latter in Greece should be a matter of a separate discussion, if not of psychoanalysis—see prof. Dusan Bjelic's work).
>> 
>> Warm regards,
>> Vladimir Boskovic
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Sep 19, 2016, at 7:44 AM, Dimitris Papanikolaou <dimitris.papanikolaou at mod-langs.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Pari, I am really sorry, but what you say about Sia's text (and the way you frame it) is, to my eyes, as problematic as Pelegrinis's unbelievable paragraph.
>>> You are right in bringing Pelegrinis's carnivalesque statements to our attention, yes. The paragraph is sickening, period.
>>> Now, we could of course debate whether Pelegrini's statements show signs of the structural antisemitism that has supported public debate and versions of ethnonationalism in Greece for at least a century [my view: yes, they do, even though their main characteristic is their banal nationalism]. But to link those with Sia Anagnostopoulou's aside, from a political text written in 2012, seems to me extremely awkward. I went back and re-read Sia's text, and really, really, you could talk about an unfortunate use of metaphor, but just about it [NB. the use of scare quotes in the word "Εβραίοι", which you so handily omit]. To extrapolate from Sia's phrase a characterization of her whole discourse as 'ahistorical, self-victimising, relativist, self-complacent and inappropriate' seems not only overblown and instrumentalizing; it also might push people, with reason, to question your own de-historicising tactics. It might, in other words, bring one to ask whether the viewpoint you are adopting is, actually, a persistently historicising one (= one that also properly contextualizes Sia's text, for instance) or whether it has, itself, become quite metaphysical.
>>> 
>>> PS. Of course if you want to analyze banal (and structural) antisemitism, you should not just "compare Greece to Turkey and Russia". I hope you know this much better than I do, hence I feel uneasy with that statement too .
>>> You see, the effort to orientalise Greek politics is one thing, and it might at times be picturesque. But to add to this an implicit orientalization of banal antisemitism, brings everything to a completely different level.
>>> 
>>> Αυτά και μένω
>>> 
>>> Δ.
>>> 
>>> Dimitris Papanikolaou
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Eui-civilwar [eui-civilwar-bounces at list.cineca.it] on behalf of Paris Papamichos Chronakis [pchronakis at gmail.com]
>>> Sent: 18 September 2016 17:56
>>> To: Mike Sotiropoulos
>>> Cc: mgsa-l at uci.edu; Study of the CIVILWAR in GREECE; socialhistory at uth.gr
>>> Subject: Re: Greek Deputy Minister of Education on the Holocaust and the Asia Minor Catastrophe
>>> 
>>> Dear Michali,
>>> 
>>> Of course I am not saying this. It goes without saying that enlightened elites will not "solve" the "problem" and I am certainly not thinking in such reductionist and unilinear terms. But they are not called policy makers for nothing. As you very well know, not every discourse is hegemonic and not every voice speaks at the same volume. Nor is the public sphere called the public sphere for nothing.
>>> 
>>> Moreover, the widespread, sanctioned and unproblematic usage of antisemitic discourse in Greece is troubling. To the best of my knowledge, antisemitic discourse is not part of "legitimate", everyday, conventional political/academic discourse anywhere else in the EU. In fact, whenever it is articulated in such milieus, there is usually an uproar (even in Poland and Hungary, not to mention Jeremy Corbyn's problems). In Greece by contrast, such statements are considered conventional wisdom. This is troubling. Accepted, the problem might not be exclusively Greek if you are willing to compare Greece to Turkey and Russia. And such statements might not be unheard of in a modern western democracy. But their silent acceptance, the fact that they pass unnoticed, certainly is.
>>> 
>>> Finally, even if the elites were enlightened and could miraculously educate the masses, I would still not be that happy with the other two ministers. On February 20, 2012 Sia Anagnostopoulou claimed that "we are the Jews of the 21st century" ("Είμαστε οι Εβραίοι του 21ου αιώνα!"). We can endlessly debate whether this is an antisemitic statement, but I guess we can at least agree that it is as ahistorical, self-victimizing, relativist, self-complacent, and inappropriate as Pelegrinis's. And the fact that her article is to be found in a site advocating for the defense of democracy and society troubles me even more.
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> 
>>> Paris
>>> 
>>>> On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 10:43 AM, Mike Sotiropoulos <mikysamurai at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Pari, although I agree with what you said about the legitimate form of reasoning, do u want to say that what is urgently needed is 'enlightened elites' that will delegitimise this form of reasoning and instill it to the masses?
>>>> 
>>>> If that is the case then we can be probably happy with the other two ministers of education (to whom Pelegrines is to an extent accountable).
>>>> But are we? I sincerely hope that after so many decades of attempts at cultural decoding, delegitimising, deconstructing - you name it- we have not been left with such a simplistic view of cultural politics ('cultural' here is at least redundant - I am keeping it in order to 'sound' more complex).
>>>> 
>>>> We can at least agree, I hope, that the problem you are describing is not exclusively 'Greek'.
>>>> 
>>>> Michalis Sotiropoulos
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 2016-09-18 10:48 GMT-04:00 Paris Papamichos Chronakis <pchronakis at gmail.com>:
>>>>> Bent it like the Jews.
>>>>> 
>>>>> All core elements of racist/antisemitic discourse are here informing the historical understanding and policies of deputy minister of Education Theodosis Pelegrinis, former rector of the University of Athens. Unfounded generalizations ("the Jews"), a simplistic and conspiratorial view of history (The Jews succeeded in appropriating the Holocaust), and parallel love-hate feelings of jealousy and admiration for the ultimate "victim" (let's do with "Catastrophe" what they did with the "Holocaust").
>>>>> 
>>>>> "Όσο κι αν το ολοκαύτωμα παραπέμπει, γενικώς, στον διωγμό και στην γενοκτονία που επιχειρεί κάποιο κράτος ή καθεστώς εναντίον εθνικών, θρησκευτικών, κοινωνικών ή πολιτικών ομάδων, που δρουν στους κόλπους ενός λαού, οι Εβραίοι πέτυχαν να ταυτίσουν το ολοκα
>> ύτωμα προς την τραγική μοίρα του έθνους των, προκειμένου να αναδείξουν τα εγκλήματα του ναζιστικού καθεστώτος εις βάρος των, με απώτερο στόχο να προκαλέσουν την οργή εναντίoν εκείνων που εγκλημάτησαν κατά της εθνικής των υπόστασης και την συμπάθεια του πολιτισμένου κόσμου για όσα υπέστησαν. Με υπομονή και επιμονή εξασφάλισαν την οικειοποίηση του ολοκαυτώματος έτσι, ώστε να διεκδικήσουν την δικαίωσή τους.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Με ανάλογο τρόπο, ίσως, θα μπορούσαμε, κι εμείς, να οικειοποιηθούμε την καταστροφή, σταθερό παρακολούθημα της ιστορίας του ελληνισμού."
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.minedu.gov.gr/eidiseis/23534-15-09-16-omilia-tou-theodosi-pelegrini-gia-tin-imera-ethnikis-mnimis-gia-tin-katastrofi-tou-mikrasiatikoy-ellinismoy
>>>>> 
>>>>> The main problem with antisemitism in Greece is not that it is widespread among the "masses", but that it is a legitimate form of reasoning. Despite the occasional condemnations, it is sanctioned and officially condoned, part of the discourse of the elites, the media and the politicians. It is in essence a "cultural code" that "speaks truth to (Jewish) power".
>>>>> 
>>>>> A very nice Sunday to all,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Paris Papamichos Chronakis
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Paris Papamichos Chronakis
>>>>> Lecturer
>>>>> Department of Classics and Mediterranean Studies
>>>>> University of Illinois at Chicago
>>>>> 601 South Morgan Street (MC 315), 1818 University Hall
>>>>> Chicago, IL, 60607-7117
>>>>> tel. 310 560 2732
>>>>> skype name: pchronakis
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Paris Papamichos Chronakis
>>> Lecturer
>>> Department of Classics and Mediterranean Studies
>>> University of Illinois at Chicago
>>> 601 South Morgan Street (MC 315), 1818 University Hall
>>> Chicago, IL, 60607-7117
>>> tel. 310 560 2732
>>> skype name: pchronakis
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l
> 
> 


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