[MGSA-L] Greek Deputy Minister of Education on the Holocaust and the Asia Minor Catastrophe
cvrhasd at techunix.technion.ac.il
cvrhasd at techunix.technion.ac.il
Mon Sep 19 09:57:36 PDT 2016
The claim that Russia has a much better historical record in treating
its jewish minority than the "western democracies" (of today ?) is a
ridiculous one - anyway all those jews who left Russia in its
different regimes for Western democracies certainly do not agree ...
Quoting Vladimir Boskovic <vladimir.d.boskovic at gmail.com>:
> I would personally be very happy if Greece would compare itself to
> Turkey and Russia. May I kindly remind you that both countries have
> substantially better historical record of treating their Jewish
> populations compared to "Western democracies" (and that such
> fetishizing the latter in Greece should be a matter of a separate
> discussion, if not of psychoanalysis—see prof. Dusan Bjelic's work).
>
> Warm regards,
> Vladimir Boskovic
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Sep 19, 2016, at 7:44 AM, Dimitris Papanikolaou
>> <dimitris.papanikolaou at mod-langs.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Pari, I am really sorry, but what you say about Sia's text (and the
>> way you frame it) is, to my eyes, as problematic as Pelegrinis's
>> unbelievable paragraph.
>> You are right in bringing Pelegrinis's carnivalesque statements to
>> our attention, yes. The paragraph is sickening, period.
>> Now, we could of course debate whether Pelegrini's statements show
>> signs of the structural antisemitism that has supported public
>> debate and versions of ethnonationalism in Greece for at least a
>> century [my view: yes, they do, even though their main
>> characteristic is their banal nationalism]. But to link those with
>> Sia Anagnostopoulou's aside, from a political text written in 2012,
>> seems to me extremely awkward. I went back and re-read Sia's text,
>> and really, really, you could talk about an unfortunate use of
>> metaphor, but just about it [NB. the use of scare quotes in the
>> word "Εβραίοι", which you so handily omit]. To extrapolate from
>> Sia's phrase a characterization of her whole discourse as
>> 'ahistorical, self-victimising, relativist, self-complacent and
>> inappropriate' seems not only overblown and instrumentalizing; it
>> also might push people, with reason, to question your own
>> de-historicising tactics. It might, in other words, bring one to
>> ask whether the viewpoint you are adopting is, actually, a
>> persistently historicising one (= one that also properly
>> contextualizes Sia's text, for instance) or whether it has, itself,
>> become quite metaphysical.
>>
>> PS. Of course if you want to analyze banal (and structural)
>> antisemitism, you should not just "compare Greece to Turkey and
>> Russia". I hope you know this much better than I do, hence I feel
>> uneasy with that statement too .
>> You see, the effort to orientalise Greek politics is one thing, and
>> it might at times be picturesque. But to add to this an implicit
>> orientalization of banal antisemitism, brings everything to a
>> completely different level.
>>
>> Αυτά και μένω
>>
>> Δ.
>>
>> Dimitris Papanikolaou
>>
>>
>> From: Eui-civilwar [eui-civilwar-bounces at list.cineca.it] on behalf
>> of Paris Papamichos Chronakis [pchronakis at gmail.com]
>> Sent: 18 September 2016 17:56
>> To: Mike Sotiropoulos
>> Cc: mgsa-l at uci.edu; Study of the CIVILWAR in GREECE; socialhistory at uth.gr
>> Subject: Re: Greek Deputy Minister of Education on the Holocaust
>> and the Asia Minor Catastrophe
>>
>> Dear Michali,
>>
>> Of course I am not saying this. It goes without saying that
>> enlightened elites will not "solve" the "problem" and I am
>> certainly not thinking in such reductionist and unilinear terms.
>> But they are not called policy makers for nothing. As you very well
>> know, not every discourse is hegemonic and not every voice speaks
>> at the same volume. Nor is the public sphere called the public
>> sphere for nothing.
>>
>> Moreover, the widespread, sanctioned and unproblematic usage of
>> antisemitic discourse in Greece is troubling. To the best of my
>> knowledge, antisemitic discourse is not part of "legitimate",
>> everyday, conventional political/academic discourse anywhere else
>> in the EU. In fact, whenever it is articulated in such milieus,
>> there is usually an uproar (even in Poland and Hungary, not to
>> mention Jeremy Corbyn's problems). In Greece by contrast, such
>> statements are considered conventional wisdom. This is troubling.
>> Accepted, the problem might not be exclusively Greek if you are
>> willing to compare Greece to Turkey and Russia. And such statements
>> might not be unheard of in a modern western democracy. But their
>> silent acceptance, the fact that they pass unnoticed, certainly is.
>>
>> Finally, even if the elites were enlightened and could miraculously
>> educate the masses, I would still not be that happy with the other
>> two ministers. On February 20, 2012 Sia Anagnostopoulou claimed
>> that "we are the Jews of the 21st century" ("Είμαστε οι Εβραίοι του
>> 21ου αιώνα!"). We can endlessly debate whether this is an
>> antisemitic statement, but I guess we can at least agree that it is
>> as ahistorical, self-victimizing, relativist, self-complacent, and
>> inappropriate as Pelegrinis's. And the fact that her article is to
>> be found in a site advocating for the defense of democracy and
>> society troubles me even more.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Paris
>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 10:43 AM, Mike Sotiropoulos
>>> <mikysamurai at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Pari, although I agree with what you said about the legitimate
>>> form of reasoning, do u want to say that what is urgently needed
>>> is 'enlightened elites' that will delegitimise this form of
>>> reasoning and instill it to the masses?
>>>
>>> If that is the case then we can be probably happy with the other
>>> two ministers of education (to whom Pelegrines is to an extent
>>> accountable).
>>> But are we? I sincerely hope that after so many decades of
>>> attempts at cultural decoding, delegitimising, deconstructing -
>>> you name it- we have not been left with such a simplistic view of
>>> cultural politics ('cultural' here is at least redundant - I am
>>> keeping it in order to 'sound' more complex).
>>>
>>> We can at least agree, I hope, that the problem you are describing
>>> is not exclusively 'Greek'.
>>>
>>> Michalis Sotiropoulos
>>>
>>>
>>> 2016-09-18 10:48 GMT-04:00 Paris Papamichos Chronakis
>>> <pchronakis at gmail.com>:
>>>> Bent it like the Jews.
>>>>
>>>> All core elements of racist/antisemitic discourse are here
>>>> informing the historical understanding and policies of deputy
>>>> minister of Education Theodosis Pelegrinis, former rector of the
>>>> University of Athens. Unfounded generalizations ("the Jews"), a
>>>> simplistic and conspiratorial view of history (The Jews succeeded
>>>> in appropriating the Holocaust), and parallel love-hate feelings
>>>> of jealousy and admiration for the ultimate "victim" (let's do
>>>> with "Catastrophe" what they did with the "Holocaust").
>>>>
>>>> "Όσο κι αν το ολοκαύτωμα παραπέμπει, γενικώς, στον διωγμό και
>>>> στην γενοκτονία που επιχειρεί κάποιο κράτος ή καθεστώς εναντίον
>>>> εθνικών, θρησκευτικών, κοινωνικών ή πολιτικών ομάδων, που δρουν
>>>> στους κόλπους ενός λαού, οι Εβραίοι πέτυχαν να ταυτίσουν το ολοκα
> ύτωμα προς την τραγική μοίρα του έθνους των, προκειμένου να
> αναδείξουν τα εγκλήματα του ναζιστικού καθεστώτος εις βάρος των, με
> απώτερο στόχο να προκαλέσουν την οργή εναντίoν εκείνων που
> εγκλημάτησαν κατά της εθνικής των υπόστασης και την συμπάθεια του
> πολιτισμένου κόσμου για όσα υπέστησαν. Με υπομονή και επιμονή
> εξασφάλισαν την οικειοποίηση του ολοκαυτώματος έτσι, ώστε να
> διεκδικήσουν την δικαίωσή τους.
>>>>
>>>> Με ανάλογο τρόπο, ίσως, θα μπορούσαμε, κι εμείς, να
>>>> οικειοποιηθούμε την καταστροφή, σταθερό παρακολούθημα της
>>>> ιστορίας του ελληνισμού."
>>>>
>>>> http://www.minedu.gov.gr/eidiseis/23534-15-09-16-omilia-tou-theodosi-pelegrini-gia-tin-imera-ethnikis-mnimis-gia-tin-katastrofi-tou-mikrasiatikoy-ellinismoy
>>>>
>>>> The main problem with antisemitism in Greece is not that it is
>>>> widespread among the "masses", but that it is a legitimate form
>>>> of reasoning. Despite the occasional condemnations, it is
>>>> sanctioned and officially condoned, part of the discourse of the
>>>> elites, the media and the politicians. It is in essence a
>>>> "cultural code" that "speaks truth to (Jewish) power".
>>>>
>>>> A very nice Sunday to all,
>>>>
>>>> Paris Papamichos Chronakis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Paris Papamichos Chronakis
>>>> Lecturer
>>>> Department of Classics and Mediterranean Studies
>>>> University of Illinois at Chicago
>>>> 601 South Morgan Street (MC 315), 1818 University Hall
>>>> Chicago, IL, 60607-7117
>>>> tel. 310 560 2732
>>>> skype name: pchronakis
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Paris Papamichos Chronakis
>> Lecturer
>> Department of Classics and Mediterranean Studies
>> University of Illinois at Chicago
>> 601 South Morgan Street (MC 315), 1818 University Hall
>> Chicago, IL, 60607-7117
>> tel. 310 560 2732
>> skype name: pchronakis
>> _______________________________________________
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