From andronikos at froggy.com.au Mon Nov 1 05:36:34 2004 From: andronikos at froggy.com.au (Pavlos Andronikos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:34 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Did Eleftherios Venizelos nominate Kemal Ataturk forthe Nobel (Peace) Prize? References: Message-ID: <41863BE0.391824C7@froggy.com.au> Samuel Hassid wrote: > I am sorry that I have no answer to Dr. Katsetos' specific question, > but I think it is ptoper to say the following: > > a. During the 1930ies Greece and Turkey, the latter under Ataturk and the > former under Venizelos, made a sincere try to improve the relations > between them. The highest point of this attempt was Venizelos' visit to > Ankara in 1932. > After Venizelos lost the elections, this policy was continued by the > right-wing greek governments that followed, including the Metaxas > dictatorship. > > b. When Ataturk died in 1938 - Aggelos Vlachos of Kathimerini - one of the > greatest figures of Greek Journalism whose articles are to be found in a > book - wrote a great obituary for Kemal Ataturk - mentioning that in spite > of the crimes commited by that man against greeks, one has to positively > appreciate his attempts to build a good relationship with Greece in the > aftermath of the war. Aggelos Vlahos did NOT - as far as I know - write > anything of the kind when Eleytherios Venizelos died two years before ... > > c. Stranger people than Kemal Ataturk were proposed for a peace prize > during those years - I think Adolf Hitler was one of them. For whatever a > Nobel Peace Prize was worth during the 1930ies ... And let's not forget that Kissinger got a Nobel peace prize! A fact which renders the peace prize worthless in my book. Pavlos Andronikos From cvrhasd at techunix.technion.ac.il Mon Nov 1 01:04:53 2004 From: cvrhasd at techunix.technion.ac.il (Samuel Hassid) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:36 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] The Cyprus Referendum Message-ID: <00fa01c4bff1$d9d90ac0$65804484@cv.technion.ac.il> I would like to offer an alternative view on the Cyprus Referendum which in my opinion is shared by the silent majority of the list. a. The overwhelming majority of those who voted NO did not do so because they were hard core nationalists. They did so because they thought that the proposed plan is a disfunctional constitution which would break down like the one prior to 1963. At least, this is what Mr. Drousiwtis (a staunch YES supporter) told us in Eleytherotypia. b. The overwhelming majority who votes NO did not do so because they were misinformed or because the government of Cyprus controls this country's mass media. In the era of intenet and satelite TV - even if there was a grain of truth in that statement, it becomes irrelevant. Most Cypriots can see greek (Helladic) TV channels - Greece being a country in which both the Government (albeit unwillingly) and the major opposition party supported YES. c. Those who voted YES are NOT traitors and no one suggested otherwise - Glaykos Kliridis was EOKA's second-in-command. Someone can appreciate the reasons that someone else is a staunch YES supporter - the will of a settlement of the Cyprus problem - but at the same time express his fear about the consequences of the break down of a dusfunctional constitution. Not such a remote possiblity - as I said in teh past the Ulster Peace Agreement broke down, but then power reverted to London temporarily. No one is really sure what will happen if the much more fragile United Cyprus Constitution breaks down. d. A foreign official (UN, EU) who supports YES is not an enemy conspiring against Hellenism, but someone who has been convinced that it is the only way of solving the Cyprus crisis. Similarly, a US official doing the same is someone concerned with a source of tension between two NATO allies. It does not make their opinions right, unfortunately: Osa xerei o noikokyris den ta xerei o kosmos olos. e. Whatever one thinks of President Papadopoulos, his marginal majority in the Cyprus presidential election contrasts sharply with the large margin of the NO vote in the referendum. I did ask once the list how come in those elections the sum of the votes of YES supporters Kliridis and Markidis + the support of AKEL came so close to a YES vote and that this was reversed 1 year and some months later. No answer yet .... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041101/b5b3cfc0/attachment.html From baloglou at Oswego.EDU Mon Nov 1 13:10:33 2004 From: baloglou at Oswego.EDU (George Baloglou) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:36 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Gypsy Greek?! Message-ID: A conversation with a student during office hours kept going from topic to topic, including her ethnic origins: nothing too unusual until she casually mentioned her homeschooling and her brother's learning of some Greek and Latin from their mother; when I inquired about that, I was told that "Latin she learned on her own, but 'slang ancient Greek' she learned from her own *uneducated* mother, who in turn had learned that from her mother, and so on" -- it ran in their German Gypsy family *for an unknown number of generations*!!! Has anyone ever heard something along such lines? [Keenly aware of the Gypsies' Indian origins, I was quick to make sure that she was talking about Greek rather than Sanskrit, and surely she knew the difference.] GB From JUNESAM at aol.com Mon Nov 1 18:53:51 2004 From: JUNESAM at aol.com (JUNESAM@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:37 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] NEGROPONTE CONGRESS Message-ID: Denise, This may be somewhat like sending Owls to Athens, but Diana Wright just forwarded this notice yo me - it - sounds interesting June S -------------------------- From: DianaGWright@COMCAST.NET (Diana Wright) Sender: CLASSICS-L@LSV.UKY.EDU (Classical Greek and Latin Discussion Group) Reply-to: CLASSICS-L@LSV.UKY.EDU (Classical Greek and Latin Discussion Group) To: CLASSICS-L@LSV.UKY.EDU List members in Greece may be interested & able to attend this -- a fabulous list of speakers on an area remarkably unstudied. DW INTERNATIONAL CONGRESS Venice ? Euboea : From Egripos to Negroponte Co-organizers : Prefecture of Euboea Municipality of Chalkida Chalkida, 12-14 November 2004 (Theater Papadimitriou) Friday 12 November 2004 9.30 Opening session. Welcome and introductory remarks Salutation by the Chairman of the Society of Euboean Studies Mrs.Maria Staikidou Salutation by the Prefect of Euboea Salutation by the Mayor of Chalkida . Salutation by the Metropolitan of Euboea . 10.00 Chryssa Maltezou, Il perch di un incontro sul Negroponte (in Greek) Morning session Chairmen : Chryssa A. Maltezou-Marino Zorzi 10.15 Ananstasia Papadia-Lala, Social organization and civic community in the island of Euboea during the Venetian period (in Greek) 10.35 Marino Zorzi, Le truppe veneziane a Negroponte nel 1460-62 in un codice trascritto e commentato dal compianto Camillo Capizzi 10.55 Coffee break 11.25 Thierry Ganchou, Les Prothymos de N?grepont : une famille grecque au service de Venise et de l'Eglise latine (XIVe ? XVe si?cles) 11.45 Ennio Concina, The Zorzi from Negroponte : noblemen, slaves, ?stradioti? (1460-1510) 12.05 Discussion Afternoon session Chairmen : Anastasia Papadia-Lala-Ioannis Karakostas 17.00 Panagiotis Mastrodimitris, The Latin Patriarchate in Negroponte and their estates during the period 1261-1470 (in greek) 17.20 Pierre A. Mackay, The House of the Dominicans in Mediaeval Negrepont 17.40 Coffee break 18.10 Nikos Moschonas, Euripus : a center of the Venetian trade (in Greek) 18.30 Laura Balletto, Negroponte nei traffici commerciali genovesi nel Mediterraneo Orientale sulla fine del medieovo 18.50 Sotiris Koutmanis, Greeks from Negroponte in Venice, 15th-18th century (in greek) 19.10 Discussion Saturday 13 November 2004 Morning session Chairmen : Laura Balletto-Panagiotis Mastrodimitris 10.00 Johannes Koder, Fata Morgana in Euboea, prisoner in the rocky islet of Euripus (in Greek) 10.20 Dimitris Triantafillopoulos, Between Constantinople and Venice : tradition and innovation of the frescoes in the churches in Negroponte (in Greek) 10.40 Vassiliki Vemi-Nikolaos Delinikolas, Saint Paraskevi of Negroponte. A Venetian reconstruction project in the 13th century (in greek) 11.00 Coffee break 11.30 George Kakavas, Tendencies of monumental painting in Euboea in the end of the 14th-beginning of the 15th century : the case of Aghia Anna at Oxylithos (in Greek) 11.50 Dimitra Petrou, Aspects of monumental painting in Euboea in the 14th / 15th century : Wall-paintings in Aghia Triti at Kathenoi and Aghioi Apostoloi at Vounoi (in Greek) 12.10 Discussion Afternoon session Chairmen : Ioulia Velissaropoulou-Karakosta-Ennio Concina 17.00 Stavros Mamaloukos-Aikaterini Pantelidou, The fortress of the bridge of Euripus (in Greek) 17.20 Ioannis Koumanoudis, Some thoughts about the sea mills of medieval castle of Chalkida (in Greek) 17.40 Coffee break 18.10 Christina Papakosta, The siege of Chalkida in 1688 in Venetian military diaries-the historical context (in Greek) 18.30 Ioanna Steriotou, The siege of Negroponte in 1688 by the allied forces of Venice and its representation in the Venetian archives (in Greek) 19.15 Conclusion Sunday 14 November 2004 9.30 Excursion at the venetian monuments in Negroponte Organizing Committee Chairman : Chryssa A. Maltezou, professor at the University of Athens and director of the Hellenic Institute of Venice Vice chairman : Charalambos Farantos, professor Gen. secretary : Ioulia Velissaropoulou ? Karakosta, professor at the Law School in the University of Athens Treasurer : Maria Fusara-Mpampou, economist Committeemen : Maria Staikidou, chairman of the Society of Euboean Studies Christos Manousaridis, typographer Secretariat Elli Kravvariti, Christina Papakosta Sponsors --------------------- HELLENIC INSTITUTE OF BYZANTINE AND POST-BYZANTINE STUDIES OF VENICE Castello 3412 (Ponte dei Greci) 30122 Venice Italy Telephone : 0039041-5226581, fax : 0039041-5238248 www.istitutoellenico.org Email : info@istitutoellenico.org From dkatseto at bellatlantic.net Mon Nov 1 10:34:51 2004 From: dkatseto at bellatlantic.net (Christos D. Katsetos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:37 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] An update on the Halki saga with an eye on history Message-ID: <418681CA.949C2F53@bellatlantic.net> The latest news on the ongoing saga of the Theological Seminary of Halki [1] look as bleak as ever -- an issue of "reciprocity" is now raised. http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=490219 http://www.radikal.com.tr/haber.php?haberno=132951 The article by Ambassador A. Suat Bilge, a respected senior Turkish diplomat, titled "The Fener Greek Patriarchate", is especially important in this regard, insofar as it articulates painstakingly the long-standing and unwavering Turkish position regarding the legal status of the Halki Seminary. In particular, it touches on the issue of "reciprocity" alluding to the establishment of an Islamic school in Western Thrace. A paradoxical claim to say the least, given the strict adherence of the Turkish Republic to the principles of secularism. http://www.turk-yunan.gen.tr/english/articles/01.html According to Ambassador Bilge: "Atatürk stated that the Fener Greek Patriarchate was a source of treachery and was impairing the peace and comfort of Christian citizens. He added that Turkey could no longer tolerate the existence of the Greek Patriarchate on Turkish soil." [C.D.K.'s note: Kemal Pasha supported the creation of an independent "Turkish Orthodox Church" under 'Papa' ('Pope') Eftim (or Efthim) (a.k.a. Papa Efthimiou, Pavlos Karahisarithis or Zeki Erenerol) [2] -- vide infra/footnotes] Dr. Bigle contends that the current legal status of the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate at Phanar (Fener, Istanbul) --which expressly prohibits the use of the term "Ecumenical"-- is traceable to Eleftherios Venizelos' acceptance of the new status quo, vis-à-vis the limited and strictly circumscribed role of the Patriarch (presumably in 1923). Quoting from Ambassador Bigle's article: " Eleftherios Venizelos, the Greek statesman, held a prolonged speech for the continuation of the existence of the Patriarchate in Istanbul. He could not deny Dr. Nur's accusations that the Patriarchate had collaborated with the enemies of the Ottoman Empire during the war but tried to reduce the significance of the crime [C.D.K.'s reference 3 -- vide infra]. Venizelos said: "War is an extraordinary event. It creates great confusion in our consciences. It is dangerous and erroneous to base our decisions for the future on past events." He added that, in order to ensure the continuing existence of the Patriarchate in Istanbul, action could be taken to remove the accused Patriarch from office. " " Venizelos accepted that conditions in Turkey had changed. He said that the Greek government was ready to accept the abolishment of all the Patriarch's authority except over religion and the Church. Venizelos then cited some of the issues which would be placed under the jurisdiction of the Turkish government: "Not accepting the Patriarch as the leader of the Greek community; abolishing all legislation which grants political authority to the Patriarch (for example) those provisions of the Law on Provinces which allow the Patriarch to attend some commissions ex officio, or those provisions of the Elections Law which grant him the right to supervise the arrangement of election schedules" [S.L. Meray, Lozan Baris¸ Konferansi, Tome .I, V.I, Part. I, p. 328]." [Excerpted from the article by Dr. A. Suat Bilge titled "The Fener Greek Patriarchate" posted on the web site Turkish Greek Relation. For 'fair use' and educational purposes only. All Rights Reserved. © FORSNET] http://www.turk-yunan.gen.tr/english/articles/01.html The history of the Patriarchate during the first decade of the Republic of Turkey, including the role of Venizelos in the abdication of Patriarch Meletios IV, and the fascinating story of 'Papa' Efthim, are critically appraised in the classic (1961) paper by Professor Harry J. Psomiades [4]. http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/texts/Psomiades_ecupat.html C.D.K. Footnotes [1] On the "Ecumenical" and "Legal" status of the Patriarchate of Constantinople: A review of the 2004 International Religious Freedom Report http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/2004-September/004075.html http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/2004-October/004185.html http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/2004-September/004010.html [2] A propos "Papa" Eftim I and his son Selcuk Erenerol (a.k.a. "Pope Eftim II"), self described "Patriarchs" of the "Turkish Orthodox Church" See Racho Donef "The Political Role of the Turkish Orthodox Patriarchate (so-called)" http://www.atour.com/~aahgn/news/20040123b.html Also, see http://www.turkishdailynews.com/old_editions/08_10_96/feature.htm#f1 Selcuk Erenerol relinquished his title as "patriarch" shortly before his death in 2002. "Turkey never accepted Erenerol's resignation." http://www.theturkishtimes.com/archive/02/12_15/f_erenol.html [3] According to Ambassador Bigle "Ambassador A.F. Drangulis also concedes that Patriach Meletius actively participated in politics, thus losing his "National Leader" title. La Gréce, Paris (1926), V. III, p. 586." [4] Harry J. Psomiades "The Ecumenical Patriarchate Under the Turkish Republic: The First Ten Years." http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/texts/Psomiades_ecupat.html [Republished at http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net by permission. Originally appeared in Balkan Studies (QESSALONIKH ) 2, 1961, pp. 47-70. © 1961, Balkan Studies. All Rights Reserved.] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041102/1ee4fc08/attachment.html From anagnostu.1 at osu.edu Tue Nov 2 06:26:20 2004 From: anagnostu.1 at osu.edu (ganagnos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:37 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] HELEN PAPANIKOLAS, 1917-2004 Message-ID: <200411021426.iA2EQKl31769@out1.campusi.com> With deep sadness I report the death of folklorist and ethnohistorian Helen Papanikolas. The funeral will be at Holy Trinity (Salt Lake City) on Friday, at 1 pm. A tireless chronicler of Greek America , Helen Papanikolas has contributed vastly to ethnnic studies as well as regional institutions. Greek-American studies have benefited from her work in folklore, ethnohistory, autobiography, family biography, fiction, editorship, archive-building, consulting, and public speaking. Her publications include a non-fiction book, a novel, two collections of short stories, scores of essays and articles, and the editing of a seminal volume on the people of Utah (see bibliography below). The interviews that she has collected through years of fieldwork are preserved at the Oral History Archive at the Marriot Library, University of Utah. Her extensive archival work on Greek America includes "one of the strongest collections of artifacts in any local community" which lead to the establishment of the Hellenic Cultural Center Museum in Salt Lake City (Notarianni, 2003:30). She served as a member of the Board of the Utah Historical Society and co! ntributed numerous articles to its magazine, the "Utah Historical Quarterly." As a consultant she has contributed to the making of the following: a) Documentaries, "Greeks of Utah" (1999); "Joe Hill: Dangers and Disasters" (2002). b) A community history, "Greek-American Pioneer Women of Illinois" (2000)]. c) A photo-documentary, "The Other Utahns: A Photographic Portofolio" (1988). d) A novel, Jeffrey Eugenides’s "Middlesex" (2002). e) And a drama, "King of America" (PBS American Playhouse series, 1981). The vast record of her public lectures testifies to a life-long contribution to community life, commitment to diversity, and social advocacy for the disenfranchised. The recent homage paid to Papanikolas in the Journal of the Hellenic Diaspora (2003) illuminates her vast capacity for deep care and generosity as a researcher but also as a human being. BIBLIOGRAPHY Papanikolas Z. Helen. 2002. An Amulet of Greek Earth: Generations of Immigrant Folk Culture. Athens: Swallow Press/Ohio University Press. Papanikolas Z. Helen. 2001. "The Time of the Little Black Bird." Speech at a conference organized by the Greek-American Women’s Network in New York City. Printed in Greek American Review. Vol. 52(641):17-20. Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1997. "A Sketch of Greek Immigrant Life in the American West." In Greeks in English-Speaking Countries: Culture, Identity, Politics. Christos P. Ioannides ed. New Rochelle, New York: Melissa Media Associates, Inc. Pp. 23-34 Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1996. "Magerou, the Greek Midwife." In Worth their Salt: Notable but Often Unnoted Women of Utah. Colleen Whitley ed. Logan: Utah State University Press. Pp. 159-169. Originally Published in 1970 in the Utah Historical Quarterly 38:50-60. Reprinted several times in the Greek-American press. Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1996. "General Introduction," and "Preface" to the Greek-American chapter. In Missing Stories. Leslie Kelen and Eileen Hallet Stone eds. Salt Lake City, Utah: University of Utah Press. Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1995. "Growing Up Greek in Helper, Utah," Forkroads: A Journal of Ethnic American Literature, Vol.1(2): 5-11. Originally published in 1980 as "Growing Up Greek in Helper, Utah," Utah Historical Quarterly, 48:240-260. Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1989. "Greek Immigrant Women of the Intermountain West," Journal of the Hellenic Diaspora XVI(1-4):17-35. Papanikolas Z. Helen, 1989a. "Old Jim," Weber Studies 4:42-51. Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1988a. "Introduction." In The Other Utahns. Leslie Kelen and Sandra Fuller, eds. Salt lake City, Utah: University of Utah Press. 1988 A World We Thought we Knew: Readings in Utah History. John S. McCormick and John R. Sillito, eds. Salt lake City, Utah: University of Utah Press. 1988. Pp? Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1990. "Immigrants, Minorities, and the Great War," Utah Historical Quarterly 58:351-370. Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1987. Aimilia - Gewrgios (Emily-George). Salt Lake City: University of Utah Press [Recently republished in paperback as A Greek Odyssey in the American West. University of Nebraska Press/Bison Books. 1997]. Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1986. "Utah’s Ethnic Legacy." Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 19:41-48. [[Reprinted in A World We Thought we Knew: Readings in Utah History. John S. McCormick and John R. Sillito, eds. Salt lake City, Utah: University of Utah Press. 1988]. Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1985. "Bootlegging in Zion: Making and Selling the ‘Good Stuff,’" Utah Historical Quarterly, 53:268-291 [Reprinted in A World We Thought we Knew: Readings in Utah History. John S. McCormick and John R. Sillito, eds. Salt lake City, Utah: University of Utah Press. 1988] Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1984. "Wrestling with Death: Greek Immigrant Funeral Customs in Utah," Utah Historical Quarterly 52:29-49. Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1981. "Women in the Mining Communities of Carbon County." In Carbon County: Eastern Utah’s Industrialized Island. Philip F. Notarianni ed. Salt Lake City. Pp. 81-102. Papanikolas Z. Helen, editor. 1981a. Haralambos Kambouris Diary. Translated by Constantine Vasilacopulos, "My Leaving Greece and Sojourn in America." Special Collections, Marriott Library, University of Utah. The Oregon portion was published in the Oregon Historical Quarterly, 82:4-39. Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1980. "The Greek Ethnic Family." In Ethnic Traditions and the Family: Asian, Black, Greek, Native American, Polynesian, and Hispanic Cultures. Salt Lake City School District, YWCA, Pp. 20-26. Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1979. "Greek Workers in the Intermountain West: The Early Twentieth Century," Byzantine and Modern Greek Studies, 5:187-215. Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1978c. "Dream and Waking: Cowboys." In Looking Far West: the Search for the American West in History, Myth and Literature. Frank Bergon and Zeese Papanikolas eds. New York. Pp. 450-1. Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1978a. "The New Immigrants." In Utah’s History, Richard D. Poll ed. Provo, Utah: Brigham Young University Press. Pp. 447-462. Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1978b. "Ethnicity in Mormondom: A Comparison of Immigrant and Mormon Cultures," In Essays on the American West, 1975-1976. Thomas G. Alexander, ed., Charles Redd Monographs in Western History, no. 8. Provo, Utah: Brigham Young University Press. Pp. 91-120. Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1976a. "The Exiled Greeks" In The Peoples of Utah. Helen Papanikolas ed. Utah State Historical Society: Salt Lake City. Pp. 409-435. Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1976. "Introduction" In The Peoples of Utah. Helen Papanikolas ed. Utah State Historical Society: Salt Lake City. Pp. 1-9. Papanikolas Z. Helen and Alice Kasai. 1976c. "Japanese Life in Utah." In The Peoples of Utah. Helen Papanikolas ed. Utah State Historical Society: Salt Lake City. Pp. 333-362. Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1976b. "The Greek Sheepmen of Utah," Beehive History, 2:14-16. Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1975. "Utah’s Coal Lands: A Vital Example of How America Became a Great Nation," Utah Historical Quarterly 43:104-124. Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1973. "Unionism, Communism, and the Great Depression: The Carbon County Coal Strike of 1933. Utah Historical Quarterly, 41:254-300 (extensive interviews with participants in the strike) Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1972. "The Greek Immigrant in Utah," In Ethnic Oral History at the American West Center, University of Utah, pp. 44-50. Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1971. "Greek Folklore of Carbon County." In Lore of Faith and Folly. Thomas E. Cheney ed. Salt Lake City: University of Utah Press, 61-77. Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1970. "Toil and Rage in a New land: The Greek Immigrants in Utah," Utah Historical Quarterly, 38, no.2. Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1965. "Life and Labor among the Immigrants of Bingham Canyon," Utah Historical Quarterly, 33:289-315. Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1954. "The Greeks of Carbon County," Utah Historical Quarterly, 22:143-164. FICTION: Papanikolas Z. Helen 2001/2002. "Father Constantine and Mrs. Tsangoglou," MondoGreco. Vol. 6/7:7-17. Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1999. The Time of the Little Black Bird. Athens: Swallow/University of Ohio Press. Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1996. The Apple Falls from the Apple Tree. Athens: Swallow/University of Ohio Press. Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1993. Small Bird, Tell Me: Stories of Greek Immigrants in Utah. Athens: Swallow/University of Ohio Press. Papanikolas Z. Helen, 1947 ‘The Fortress and the Prison," Utah Humanities Review 1 (April 1947): 134-146 [Later the journal’s name was changed to "Western Humanities Review." This is the first literary attempt by HP, published excerpts from a novel who was never published; see Murphy (1996:251) Yiorgos Anagnostou Ohio State University ________________________________________________________________ >Find the LOWEST PRICES on books at http://www.campusi.com ! >Check your SchoolEmail at http://www.campusi.com/email > > ____________________________________________________________________ Find the LOWEST PRICES on books at http://www.campusi.com ! Check your SchoolEmail at http://www.campusi.com/email From C.Buhayer at westminster.ac.uk Tue Nov 2 08:59:18 2004 From: C.Buhayer at westminster.ac.uk (C.Buhayer@westminster.ac.uk) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:37 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] HELEN PAPANIKOLAS, 1917-2004 In-Reply-To: <200411021426.iA2EQKl31769@out1.campusi.com> References: <200411021426.iA2EQKl31769@out1.campusi.com> Message-ID: <1099414758.4187bce6c0f26@webmail.wmin.ac.uk> Thank you for the posting on Helen Papanikolas. Lucky Utah Greeks for having had such a lady and a 'Hellenic Cultural Centre Museum'. filika CB Quoting ganagnos : > With deep sadness I report the death of folklorist and ethnohistorian Helen > Papanikolas. The funeral will be at Holy Trinity (Salt Lake City) on Friday, > at 1 pm. > > A tireless chronicler of Greek America , Helen Papanikolas has contributed > vastly to ethnnic studies as well as regional institutions. Greek-American > studies have benefited from her work in folklore, ethnohistory, > autobiography, family biography, fiction, editorship, archive-building, > consulting, and public speaking. Her publications include a non-fiction > book, a novel, two collections of short stories, scores of essays and > articles, and the editing of a seminal volume on the people of Utah (see > bibliography below). The interviews that she has collected through years of > fieldwork are preserved at the Oral History Archive at the Marriot Library, > University of Utah. Her extensive archival work on Greek America includes > "one of the strongest collections of artifacts in any local community" which > lead to the establishment of the Hellenic Cultural Center Museum in Salt Lake > City (Notarianni, 2003:30). She served as a member of the Board of the Utah > Historical Society and co! > ntributed numerous articles to its magazine, the "Utah Historical Quarterly." > As a consultant she has contributed to the making of the following: > > a) Documentaries, "Greeks of Utah" (1999); "Joe Hill: Dangers and Disasters" > (2002). > b) A community history, "Greek-American Pioneer Women of Illinois" (2000)]. > > c) A photo-documentary, "The Other Utahns: A Photographic Portofolio" (1988). > > d) A novel, Jeffrey Eugenides?s "Middlesex" (2002). e) And a drama, "King of > America" (PBS American Playhouse series, 1981). > > The vast record of her public lectures testifies to a life-long contribution > to community life, commitment to diversity, and social advocacy for the > disenfranchised. The recent homage paid to Papanikolas in the Journal of the > Hellenic Diaspora (2003) illuminates her vast capacity for deep care and > generosity as a researcher but also as a human being. > > BIBLIOGRAPHY > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 2002. An Amulet of Greek Earth: Generations of > Immigrant Folk Culture. Athens: Swallow Press/Ohio University Press. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 2001. "The Time of the Little Black Bird." Speech at > a conference organized by the Greek-American Women?s Network in New York > City. Printed in Greek American Review. Vol. 52(641):17-20. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1997. "A Sketch of Greek Immigrant Life in the > American West." In Greeks in English-Speaking Countries: Culture, Identity, > Politics. Christos P. Ioannides ed. New Rochelle, New York: Melissa Media > Associates, Inc. Pp. 23-34 > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1996. "Magerou, the Greek Midwife." In Worth their > Salt: Notable but Often Unnoted Women of Utah. Colleen Whitley ed. Logan: > Utah State University Press. Pp. 159-169. Originally Published in 1970 in > the Utah Historical Quarterly 38:50-60. Reprinted several times in the > Greek-American press. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1996. "General Introduction," and "Preface" to the > Greek-American chapter. In Missing Stories. Leslie Kelen and Eileen Hallet > Stone eds. Salt Lake City, Utah: University of Utah Press. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1995. "Growing Up Greek in Helper, Utah," Forkroads: A > Journal of Ethnic American Literature, Vol.1(2): 5-11. Originally published > in 1980 as "Growing Up Greek in Helper, Utah," Utah Historical Quarterly, > 48:240-260. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1989. "Greek Immigrant Women of the Intermountain > West," Journal of the Hellenic Diaspora XVI(1-4):17-35. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen, 1989a. "Old Jim," Weber Studies 4:42-51. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1988a. "Introduction." In The Other Utahns. Leslie > Kelen and Sandra Fuller, eds. Salt lake City, Utah: University of Utah > Press. > > 1988 A World We Thought we Knew: Readings in Utah History. John S. McCormick > and John R. Sillito, eds. Salt lake City, Utah: University of Utah Press. > 1988. Pp? > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1990. "Immigrants, Minorities, and the Great War," > Utah Historical Quarterly 58:351-370. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1987. Aimilia - Gewrgios (Emily-George). Salt Lake > City: University of Utah Press [Recently republished in paperback as A Greek > Odyssey in the American West. University of Nebraska Press/Bison Books. > 1997]. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1986. "Utah?s Ethnic Legacy." Dialogue: A Journal of > Mormon Thought 19:41-48. [[Reprinted in A World We Thought we Knew: Readings > in Utah History. John S. McCormick and John R. Sillito, eds. Salt lake City, > Utah: University of Utah Press. 1988]. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1985. "Bootlegging in Zion: Making and Selling the > ?Good Stuff,?" Utah Historical Quarterly, 53:268-291 [Reprinted in A World We > Thought we Knew: Readings in Utah History. John S. McCormick and John R. > Sillito, eds. Salt lake City, Utah: University of Utah Press. 1988] > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1984. "Wrestling with Death: Greek Immigrant Funeral > Customs in Utah," Utah Historical Quarterly 52:29-49. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1981. "Women in the Mining Communities of Carbon > County." In Carbon County: Eastern Utah?s Industrialized Island. Philip F. > Notarianni ed. Salt Lake City. Pp. 81-102. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen, editor. 1981a. Haralambos Kambouris Diary. Translated > by Constantine Vasilacopulos, "My Leaving Greece and Sojourn in America." > Special Collections, Marriott Library, University of Utah. The Oregon > portion was published in the Oregon Historical Quarterly, 82:4-39. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1980. "The Greek Ethnic Family." In Ethnic Traditions > and the Family: Asian, Black, Greek, Native American, Polynesian, and > Hispanic Cultures. Salt Lake City School District, YWCA, Pp. 20-26. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1979. "Greek Workers in the Intermountain West: The > Early Twentieth Century," Byzantine and Modern Greek Studies, 5:187-215. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1978c. "Dream and Waking: Cowboys." In Looking Far > West: the Search for the American West in History, Myth and Literature. > Frank Bergon and Zeese Papanikolas eds. New York. Pp. 450-1. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1978a. "The New Immigrants." In Utah?s History, Richard > D. Poll ed. Provo, Utah: Brigham Young University Press. Pp. 447-462. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1978b. "Ethnicity in Mormondom: A Comparison of > Immigrant and Mormon Cultures," In Essays on the American West, 1975-1976. > Thomas G. Alexander, ed., Charles Redd Monographs in Western History, no. 8. > Provo, Utah: Brigham Young University Press. Pp. 91-120. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1976a. "The Exiled Greeks" In The Peoples of Utah. > Helen Papanikolas ed. Utah State Historical Society: Salt Lake City. Pp. > 409-435. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1976. "Introduction" In The Peoples of Utah. Helen > Papanikolas ed. Utah State Historical Society: Salt Lake City. Pp. 1-9. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen and Alice Kasai. 1976c. "Japanese Life in Utah." In > The Peoples of Utah. Helen Papanikolas ed. Utah State Historical Society: > Salt Lake City. Pp. 333-362. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1976b. "The Greek Sheepmen of Utah," Beehive History, > 2:14-16. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1975. "Utah?s Coal Lands: A Vital Example of How > America Became a Great Nation," Utah Historical Quarterly 43:104-124. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1973. "Unionism, Communism, and the Great Depression: > The Carbon County Coal Strike of 1933. Utah Historical Quarterly, 41:254-300 > (extensive interviews with participants in the strike) > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1972. "The Greek Immigrant in Utah," In Ethnic Oral > History at the American West Center, University of Utah, pp. 44-50. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1971. "Greek Folklore of Carbon County." In Lore of > Faith and Folly. Thomas E. Cheney ed. Salt Lake City: University of Utah > Press, 61-77. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1970. "Toil and Rage in a New land: The Greek > Immigrants in Utah," Utah Historical Quarterly, 38, no.2. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1965. "Life and Labor among the Immigrants of Bingham > Canyon," Utah Historical Quarterly, 33:289-315. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1954. "The Greeks of Carbon County," Utah Historical > Quarterly, 22:143-164. > > FICTION: > > Papanikolas Z. Helen 2001/2002. "Father Constantine and Mrs. Tsangoglou," > MondoGreco. Vol. 6/7:7-17. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1999. The Time of the Little Black Bird. Athens: > Swallow/University of Ohio Press. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1996. The Apple Falls from the Apple Tree. Athens: > Swallow/University of Ohio Press. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen. 1993. Small Bird, Tell Me: Stories of Greek > Immigrants in Utah. Athens: Swallow/University of Ohio Press. > > Papanikolas Z. Helen, 1947 ?The Fortress and the Prison," Utah Humanities > Review 1 (April 1947): 134-146 [Later the journal?s name was changed to > "Western Humanities Review." This is the first literary attempt by HP, > published excerpts from a novel who was never published; see Murphy > (1996:251) > > Yiorgos Anagnostou > Ohio State University > > ________________________________________________________________ > >Find the LOWEST PRICES on books at http://www.campusi.com ! > >Check your SchoolEmail at http://www.campusi.com/email > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Find the LOWEST PRICES on books at http://www.campusi.com ! > Check your SchoolEmail at http://www.campusi.com/email > _______________________________________________ > List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l > From iioannou at hbs.edu Tue Nov 2 10:36:39 2004 From: iioannou at hbs.edu (Ioannis Ioannou) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:37 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] The Cyprus Referendum In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello, I would like to attempt respond to some of the issues/qustions that Mr Hassid raised in his last email to the list with regards to the Cyprus Referendum. > b. The overwhelming majority who votes NO did not do so > because they were misinformed or because the government of > Cyprus controls this country's mass media. In the era of > intenet and satelite TV - even if there was a grain of truth > in that statement, it becomes irrelevant. Most Cypriots can see greek > (Helladic) TV channels - Greece being a country in which both > the Government (albeit unwillingly) and the major opposition > party supported YES. That is not quite true unfortunately. I do not believe that the internet has penetrated to such an extent into the life of the average Cypriot and in any case, Satelite TV (i.e Hellenic satelite chanels) have only recently become available, at a not-so-low cost, thus it is still early to estimate their effect on such important issues as the referendum. As I explained in the past in this email list, there are several political relationships among the mass media, including Mrs Papadopoulou share in the media group called "Dias", which owns a radio station (Radio Proto), a newspaper (Simerini) and a TV Channel (Sigma), that would lead one to believe that at the very least, what is presented is biased to a considerable degree. And to this argument, I would like to add that it was not only a matter of mass media, but also a feeling of terror that existed in Cyprus. There are accounts of assaults to cars, people and even "Yes" kiosks that cannot be ignored and where policemen were watching the destruction taking place without reacting. With regards to the Greek policy towards the issue, one should note here that right before his address to the public on the night before the referendum, President Papadopoulos attempted to influence public opinion with regards to Greek Politics by stating that "Greece does what it does for its own reasons, its own interests". Given that polls have shown that a lot of people were expecting the president's stance to make their final decision, obviously such statements cultivated a feeling of "battling against the world conspiracy against us", something that due to reasons that need to be examined, seems to have a huge effect on the mentality of the average Cypriot, even though it has no place in reality > c. Those who voted YES are NOT traitors and no one suggested > otherwise - Glaykos Kliridis was EOKA's second-in-command. Again, here, it seems that the first to have suggested otherwise, and actually continues to do so, is President Papadopoulos. Acting only a low caliber leader, he characterized 24% of his people as "nainaikous" and recently attempts to characterize them as "paid traitors". One statement by MP Pittokopitis at this point indicates the degree of political deterioration and low quality politics that exist in Cyprus today. He made the outrageous statement that all those that received money from the Americans should commit suicide "stis dimosies plateies" (in public plazas). President Papadopoulos, being also the leader of DHKO, a party that elects MPs of this quality, bares also an extensive amount of political responsibility for such statements. And let one note here that this is only one of the many statements that Mr Pittokopitis, Mr Koulias and other MPs of similar level, ethos and political status seem to make. Thus, anyone that claims that money were received/paid by anyone, should do so, if and only if, there are enough evidence to support such accusations. Otherwise, the person being accusated may react with any way he/she sees fit to protect their dignity and good name. And here one should also note that exactly the deterioration in our political standards and the emergence of MPs of such a low level are exactly the reason why inocent people need to defend themselves against unsubstantiated allegations. Here again, one should note that some people in Cyprus, and especially DIKO MP Mr Koulias, are being paranoid about foreigners to a degree that someone would characterize it as xenophobia. In recent TV appearances, Mr Koulias, a lawer, claimed that all the seminars that are organized abroad are a form of "brainwashing". Personally, I have participated in such seminars in the past, on conflict resolution, ethnic conflict that were organized by Harvard (Negotiations Unit). Nonetheless, Mr Koulias, a personal that lacks even the basic technical background on these issues to express any valid or substantiated opinion, is one of the many people in Cyprus that cultivated and continue to cultivate this feeling that any Cypriot that interacts with Americans, especially through educational seminars, should be considered as brainwashed, and thus an enemy of Cyprus. Again, the specific MP is a member of DIKO, the party of Mr Papadopoulos. Should one assume that Mr Papadopoulos shares the same opinions as the closest of his advisors? > e. Whatever one thinks of President Papadopoulos, his > marginal majority in the Cyprus presidential election > contrasts sharply with the large margin of the NO vote in > the referendum. > I did ask once the list how come in those elections the > sum of the votes of YES supporters Kliridis and Markidis + > the support of AKEL came so close to a YES vote and that this > was reversed 1 year and some months later. No answer yet .... So, with regards to the above question, one should note that the vote for a president was very different from a vote in the referendum. That also would explain the emergence of DHSY, the only party to support the YES vote, as the strongest political force in Cyprus at the Euro-Elections. It is important too, to note that recent polls, ie last week in Phileleftheros, should that the percentage of the voters that would vote NO again, dropped to around 60%, something which confirms that people's perceptions about the present situation are changing. People might indeed be realizing the lies and pseudo-struggles that Papadopoullo's was talking about and maybe they realized, and this is confirmed from various resources, that on Apr 24th, the Cyprus problem reached a de facto solution of dichotomisis, whether we like it or not. The games that are played out during presidential elections are quite different from the ones for the referendum. It is also vital to take into account that during the presidential election, the details of the Annan plan were not at all known to the public. Thus, the majority of AKEL had no reason to support anyone apart from Mr Papadopoulos, acting, as it always has, according to the communist party lines. Only afterwards did they came to realize that Mr Papadopoulos was a fake, but at least, in the internal issues, they were a significant supporter (and indeed an essential) of the government, which means that they got significant power for promoting their own interests (government jobs, ministries etc). Lastly one should take into account that the vote towards Mr Clerides (and Markides) was a vote towards a specific political agenda, that was completely ruined by the winning of Mr Papadopoulos. One could argue that things could have been different in the Annan Plan had Mr Clerides remained the president. And to this extent, one should not forget various articles in the international press, the one that we tend to ignore in Cyprus, that characterized Mr Papadopoulos as a rejectionist. The international political scene therefore adjusted accordingly. Thus, the reversal of the vote could be associated that some people were expecting Mr Clerides to do much better with regards to the negotiations of the annan plan, but when they realized that Mr papadopoulos was inherently incapable of completing the job and delivering a good plan for the solution of the Cyprus problem, they decided to vote for NO. Apologies for the long email. Best, Ioannis Ioannou Doctoral Student PhD Business Economics Harvard Economics Dept and Business School Boston, MA 02163 www.people.hbs.edu/iioannou "At bottom every man knows well enough that he is a unique being, only once on this earth; and by no extraordinary chance will such a marvelously picturesque piece of diversity in unity as he is, ever be put together a second time." Friedrich Nietzsche From gondicas at Princeton.EDU Wed Nov 3 09:03:40 2004 From: gondicas at Princeton.EDU (Dimitri Gondicas) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:37 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Princeton Hellenic Studies Workshop - Tuesday, November 9, 2004 Message-ID: <003b01c4c1c7$1124e5e0$f7e17080@princeton.edu> Princeton University Program in Hellenic Studies Workshop Culture and the State: Greece During the Post-Dictatorship Period Vassilis Voutsakis mailto:vvoutsak@princeton.edu University of Athens; Visiting Fellow, Program in Hellenic Studies Should a liberal state support culture? This presentation will examine the cultural politics of the Greek state during the post-dictatorship period, 1974 to the present. A first question to be addressed is historical. The reconstruction of the rhetorics employed to justify the cultural policies of the Greek state could reveal principles underlying these policies and related to deeper trends in contemporary Greece. A second question is philosophical. Should the state carry out cultural politics? Several perfectionist theories can be put forth to justify the protection of the cultural environment by the state. The critical examination of some perfectionist arguments reveals the paternalism they all share. This leads to the formulation of a theory that could combine state support to culture with the neutrality of the state concerning questions of the "human good." Such a theory might account for certain phenomena in contemporary Greece, such as the fact that in recent years the rhetorics of "human good" have given way to and are gradually being replaced by the rhetorics of "rights." _____ Vassilis Voutsakis teaches philosophy of law as a part-time lecturer in the Faculty of Law of the University of Athens, where he received his first degree. He was awarded a first D.E.A. in Jurisprudence from the University of Paris II, and a second one in Philosophy from the University of Paris I - Sorbonne. He completed his Doctorat d' Etat en Droit Public at the University of Montpellier. From 1996 to 2004 he was advisor to Constantine Simitis, the former Prime Minister of Greece. He recently published a book on the right of privacy and has also written several articles on law and culture, civil society, legal reasoning and the rule of law. He has translated books of political philosophy. Tuesday, November 9, 2004 6:00 p.m. Humanities Program Building, Room 103 _____ The HELLENIC STUDIES WORKSHOP provides an opportunity for post-doctoral fellows, visiting fellows, and graduate students to present their work-in-progress or recently published research. The aim is to encourage exchange of ideas across disciplines among Classical scholars, Byzantinists, and Modern Greek Studies specialists. For further information about current events in Hellenic Studies, please refer to the calendar posted on our website: http://www.princeton.edu/~hellenic/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041103/de02783a/attachment.html From iioannou at hbs.edu Wed Nov 3 14:59:38 2004 From: iioannou at hbs.edu (Ioannis Ioannou) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:37 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] The Cyprus Referendum Message-ID: Dear Mr Miralis. I wish too that they were exaggerations. I know that such incidents, as the ones with policemen that I refer to in my previous email, were recorded on VHS tapes and I am in a position to know that they have been sent were they should be sent. Best, Ioannis Ioannou Doctoral Student PhD Business Economics Harvard Economics Dept and Business School Boston, MA 02163 www.people.hbs.edu/iioannou "At bottom every man knows well enough that he is a unique being, only once on this earth; and by no extraordinary chance will such a marvelously picturesque piece of diversity in unity as he is, ever be put together a second time." Friedrich Nietzsche > -----Original Message----- > From: Yiannis Miralis [mailto:miralisy@uidaho.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 6:53 AM > To: mgsa-l-bounces@uci.edu > Cc: Ioannis Ioannou > Subject: RE: [MGSA-L] The Cyprus Referendum > > To: Yiannis Ioannou > > Even though one may agree with many of the points that you raised, to > mention that "... but also a feeling of terror that existed in Cyprus" > is an overexaggeration. I believe there was a feeling of confusion, > perplexity and scepticism, but not terror. > > Yiannis Miralis > > -----Original Message----- > From: mgsa-l-bounces@uci.edu > [mailto:mgsa-l-bounces@uci.edu]On Behalf Of Ioannis Ioannou > Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 8:37 PM > To: 'MGSA-L' > Subject: RE: [MGSA-L] The Cyprus Referendum > > > Hello, > > I would like to attempt respond to some of the issues/qustions that Mr > Hassid raised in his last email to the list with regards to the Cyprus > Referendum. > > > b. The overwhelming majority who votes NO did not do so > because they > > were misinformed or because the government of Cyprus controls this > > country's mass media. In the era of intenet and satelite TV > - even if > > there was a grain of truth in that statement, it becomes > irrelevant. > > Most Cypriots can see greek > > (Helladic) TV channels - Greece being a country in which both the > > Government (albeit unwillingly) and the major opposition party > > supported YES. > > That is not quite true unfortunately. I do not believe that the > internet has penetrated to such an extent into the life of the average > Cypriot and in any case, Satelite TV (i.e Hellenic satelite chanels) > have only recently become available, at a not-so-low cost, thus it is > still early to estimate their effect on such important issues as the > referendum. As I explained in the past in this email list, there are > several political relationships among the mass media, including Mrs > Papadopoulou share in the media group called "Dias", which owns a > radio station (Radio Proto), a newspaper (Simerini) and a TV Channel > (Sigma), that would lead one to believe that at the very least, what > is presented is biased to a considerable degree. > And to this argument, I would like to add that it was not only a > matter of mass media, but also a feeling of terror that existed in > Cyprus. There are accounts of assaults to cars, people and even "Yes" > kiosks that cannot be ignored and where policemen were watching the > destruction taking place without reacting. > With regards to the Greek policy towards the issue, one should note > here that right before his address to the public on the night before > the referendum, President Papadopoulos attempted to influence public > opinion with regards to Greek Politics by stating that "Greece does > what it does for its own reasons, its own interests". > Given that polls have shown that a lot of people were expecting the > president's stance to make their final decision, obviously such > statements cultivated a feeling of "battling against the world > conspiracy against us", something that due to reasons that need to be > examined, seems to have a huge effect on the mentality of the average > Cypriot, even though it has no place in reality > > > > c. Those who voted YES are NOT traitors and no one > suggested otherwise > > - Glaykos Kliridis was EOKA's second-in-command. > > Again, here, it seems that the first to have suggested otherwise, and > actually continues to do so, is President Papadopoulos. Acting only a > low caliber leader, he characterized 24% of his people as "nainaikous" > and recently attempts to characterize them as "paid traitors". One > statement by MP Pittokopitis at this point indicates the degree of > political deterioration and low quality politics that exist in Cyprus > today. He made the outrageous statement that all those that received > money from the Americans should commit suicide "stis dimosies > plateies" > (in public plazas). President Papadopoulos, being also the leader of > DHKO, a party that elects MPs of this quality, bares also an extensive > amount of political responsibility for such statements. And let one > note here that this is only one of the many statements that Mr > Pittokopitis, Mr Koulias and other MPs of similar level, ethos and > political status seem to make. > Thus, anyone that claims that money were received/paid by anyone, > should do so, if and only if, there are enough evidence to support > such accusations. Otherwise, the person being accusated may react with > any way he/she sees fit to protect their dignity and good name. And > here one should also note that exactly the deterioration in our > political standards and the emergence of MPs of such a low level are > exactly the reason why inocent people need to defend themselves > against unsubstantiated allegations. > > Here again, one should note that some people in Cyprus, and especially > DIKO MP Mr Koulias, are being paranoid about foreigners to a degree > that someone would characterize it as xenophobia. In recent TV > appearances, Mr Koulias, a lawer, claimed that all the seminars that > are organized abroad are a form of "brainwashing". > Personally, I have participated in such seminars in the past, on > conflict resolution, ethnic conflict that were organized by Harvard > (Negotiations Unit). > Nonetheless, Mr Koulias, a personal that lacks even the basic > technical background on these issues to express any valid or > substantiated opinion, is one of the many people in Cyprus that > cultivated and continue to cultivate this feeling that any Cypriot > that interacts with Americans, especially through educational > seminars, should be considered as brainwashed, and thus an enemy of > Cyprus. Again, the specific MP is a member of DIKO, the party of Mr > Papadopoulos. Should one assume that Mr Papadopoulos shares the same > opinions as the closest of his advisors? > > > > e. Whatever one thinks of President Papadopoulos, his marginal > > majority in the Cyprus presidential election contrasts > sharply with > > the large margin of the NO vote in the referendum. > > I did ask once the list how come in those elections the > sum of the > > votes of YES supporters Kliridis and Markidis + the support of AKEL > > came so close to a YES vote and that this was reversed 1 > year and some > > months later. No answer yet .... > > So, with regards to the above question, one should note that the vote > for a president was very different from a vote in the referendum. That > also would explain the emergence of DHSY, the only party to support > the YES vote, as the strongest political force in Cyprus at the > Euro-Elections. It is important too, to note that recent polls, ie > last week in Phileleftheros, should that the percentage of the voters > that would vote NO again, dropped to around 60%, something which > confirms that people's perceptions about the present situation are > changing. People might indeed be realizing the lies and > pseudo-struggles that Papadopoullo's was talking about and maybe they > realized, and this is confirmed from various resources, that on Apr > 24th, the Cyprus problem reached a de facto solution of dichotomisis, > whether we like it or not. The games that are played out during > presidential elections are quite different from the ones for the > referendum. It is also vital to take into account that during the > presidential election, the details of the Annan plan were not at all > known to the public. Thus, the majority of AKEL had no reason to > support anyone apart from Mr Papadopoulos, acting, as it always has, > according to the communist party lines. Only afterwards did they came > to realize that Mr Papadopoulos was a fake, but at least, in the > internal issues, they were a significant supporter (and indeed an > essential) of the government, which means that they got significant > power for promoting their own interests (government jobs, ministries > etc). > > Lastly one should take into account that the vote towards Mr Clerides > (and > Markides) > was a vote towards a specific political agenda, that was completely > ruined by the winning of Mr Papadopoulos. One could argue that things > could have been different in the Annan Plan had Mr Clerides remained > the president. And to this extent, one should not forget various > articles in the international press, the one that we tend to ignore in > Cyprus, that characterized Mr Papadopoulos as a rejectionist. > The international political scene therefore adjusted accordingly. > Thus, the reversal of the vote could be associated that some people > were expecting Mr Clerides to do much better with regards to the > negotiations of the annan plan, but when they realized that Mr > papadopoulos was inherently incapable of completing the job and > delivering a good plan for the solution of the Cyprus problem, they > decided to vote for NO. > > Apologies for the long email. > > Best, > Ioannis Ioannou > Doctoral Student > PhD Business Economics > Harvard Economics Dept and Business School Boston, MA 02163 > www.people.hbs.edu/iioannou > > "At bottom every man knows well enough that he is a unique being, only > once on this earth; and by no extraordinary chance will such a > marvelously picturesque piece of diversity in unity as he is, ever be > put together a second time." > > Friedrich Nietzsche > > > _______________________________________________ > List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l > From JUNESAM at aol.com Wed Nov 3 17:38:19 2004 From: JUNESAM at aol.com (JUNESAM@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:37 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Libraries of Hellenism Message-ID: <1d8.2f63fa8e.2ebae20b@aol.com> [29] Parliament Foundation's "Libraries of Hellenism" exhibition to open on Wednesday Athens 3/11/2004 (ANA) An exhibition of old books, photographs, maps, manuscripts and other artifacts entitled "Libraries of Hellenism" - the first organized by the Parliament Foundation at its new exhibition space on the corner of Mitropoleos and Filellinon streets on Syntagma Square - will be inaugurated on Wednesday night by President of the Republic Kostis Stephanopoulos and Parliament President Anna Psarouda-Benaki. The books and other artifacts originate from regions occupied by the once thriving Greek communities in western Thrace, spanning the area from Adrianoupolis (present-day Edirne in Turkey) to Varna, within the borders of Bulgaria. The exhibition concludes a series of events to mark the 80th anniversary in 2000 since Western Thrace became part of Greece. It will run until the end of January. From ec2268 at columbia.edu Thu Nov 4 05:17:34 2004 From: ec2268 at columbia.edu (ec2268@columbia.edu) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:37 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] STOURAITI TALK AT COLUMBIA, TUESDAY 9TH Message-ID: <1099574254.418a2bee7731e@cubmail.cc.columbia.edu> The Program in Hellenic Studies at Columbia University presents a lecture by Anastasia Stouraiti Post-Doctoral Fellow, Program in Hellenic Studies, Princeton University Public History & the Discourse of Empire: Venice during the War of the Morea, 1684 ? 1699 7 p.m., Tuesday, November 9, 2004 Hamilton Hall 603 This talk will focus on Venetians' perception and conceptualization of their war against the Turks for the conquest of the Greek region of the Morea (Peloponnese) at the end of the 17th century. The speaker will discuss the broader historical culture, which included narrative and non-narrative modes of representing the present and the past, and was subject to social and commercial forces that affected the way in which early modern Venetians thought, read, and wrote about the Venetian-Turkish war and the new conquests. In order to demonstrate how war shapes a culture, but also how culture constructs the meaning of war, the talk will focus on versions of public history and the production of civic memory as aspects of the politics of culture in late 17th century Venice. Finally, the talk will examine how certain cultural events in Venice shaped the idea of the Venetian empire and its representation in art, journalism, and history-writing: trade and colonies shaped Venetian culture as much as culture constructed particular visions of dominion and empire. Anastasia Stouraiti holds an undergraduate degree in History from the University of Athens. A Greek State Scholarship and the Italian Institute of Culture in Athens supported her graduate studies, as well as her archival and bibliographical research. She completed an M.A. in early modern Greek history at the University of Athens, where she earned the Ph.D. degree (2003) with a dissertation on Mars in the Mirror: The Reception of the War of Morea (1684-1699) in Venice. Anastasia Stouraiti did extensive research in Venice, where she worked for the Querini Stampalia Foundation and taught for the History Department of the Ca'Foscari University. She has published articles and exhibition catalogues on Venetian history. Her main interests are the history of the Venetian Empire and its Greek territories; the history of print and manuscript culture; early modern journalism; and the politics of information and public history in the early modern period. For further information, please contact the Program in Hellenic Studies at 212 854 5758. -- Vangelis Calotychos Acting Director, Program in Hellenic Studies Department of Classics, Columbia University 606 Hamilton Hall, 1130 Amsterdam Avenue, New York, NY 10027 Tel: 212-854-6988 Fax:212-854-7856 ec2268@columbia.edu From cvrhasd at techunix.technion.ac.il Thu Nov 4 03:51:32 2004 From: cvrhasd at techunix.technion.ac.il (Samuel Hassid) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:38 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] greek americans in congress Message-ID: <000c01c4c264$a0de5520$65804484@cv.technion.ac.il> Dear All As is customary after every US election, I was wondering if someone on the other side of the Atlantic can say something on Americans of Greek extraction in the new Houses of Congress. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041104/858eb45e/attachment.html From mh348 at cornell.edu Thu Nov 4 11:03:55 2004 From: mh348 at cornell.edu (Maria Hnaraki) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:38 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] http://www.ndimou.gr/newsarticle_gr.asp?news_id=85 Message-ID: <2477.132.236.149.118.1099595035.squirrel@132.236.149.118> For some, the article found on the title's webpage might appear interesting. To others, it may just be ... all greek! Theosophically, Maria - - - - - - - - - - I fear nothing I hope for nothing I am free... Nikos Kazantzakis From LYNGOS at aol.com Thu Nov 4 12:24:14 2004 From: LYNGOS at aol.com (LYNGOS@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:38 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Re: Letter to the President. Message-ID: Dear Mr. President Today I am released from my loyalty to you Sir and to your party. In the millions of votes that you received in the elections of 2000 and 2004, please count two votes less. For someone who recognizes the Slavs and Albanians of F.Y.R.O.M. as Macedonians and their country as Republic of Macedonia, you do not deserve them. I wish I could take them back. So long Mr. President. George Sofoklis Tsapanos 2027 E. Laura Ave. Visalia, Ca 93292 559-627-3346 Lyngos@aol.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041104/ea505258/attachment.html From mh348 at cornell.edu Thu Nov 4 11:13:10 2004 From: mh348 at cornell.edu (Maria Hnaraki) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:38 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] http://www.ndimou.gr/newsarticle_gr.asp?news_id=86 Message-ID: <2549.132.236.149.118.1099595590.squirrel@132.236.149.118> Another article with certain SCOPE. Sceptically, Maria - - - - - - - - - - I fear nothing I hope for nothing I am free... Nikos Kazantzakis From AKarpathak at aol.com Thu Nov 4 17:01:27 2004 From: AKarpathak at aol.com (AKarpathak@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:38 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Re: Letter to the President. Message-ID: <593CEF9B.68592420.09E588BC@aol.com> Why are Greek Americans who voted for Bush surprised at this? It's pay back time for the position/support, etc. in Iraq. The goody bags are now gonna start rolling open for the good boys, too bad for those who took the alternative position. It's elementary my dear Watson. Ah... Machiavelli........ if only everyone was good at your game!!! Anna K. In a message dated 11/4/2004 3:24:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, LYNGOS@aol.com writes: >Dear Mr. President >Today I am released from my loyalty to you Sir and to your party. >In the millions of votes that you received in the elections of 2000 and 2004, >please count two votes less. >For someone who recognizes the Slavs and Albanians of F.Y.R.O.M. as >Macedonians and their country as Republic of Macedonia, you do not deserve them. >I wish I could take them back. > >So long Mr. President. >George Sofoklis Tsapanos >2027 E. Laura Ave. >Visalia, Ca 93292 >559-627-3346 >Lyngos@aol.com. > From AKarpathak at aol.com Fri Nov 5 09:35:40 2004 From: AKarpathak at aol.com (AKarpathak@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:38 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] The Stone Age of Arch. Christodoulos Message-ID: <15.37238201.2ebd13ec@aol.com> For those of u studying gender and sexuality issues, why the issue of homosexuality now in the Greek Church? Theories???? Explanations??? The Church went from political nationalism to solidly placing itself in the ranks of right wing conservative churches by entering the area of sexuality. Is the issue of reproductive rights next??? WHY??? What is going on??? (And yes, that is probably somebody's dissertation or book, but, please, share some of this stuff with us.) Anna K. In a message dated 10/31/2004 9:38:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, iioannou@hbs.edu writes: http://www.typos.com.cy/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=46930 Ioannis Ioannou Doctoral Student PhD Business Economics Harvard Economics Dept and Business School Boston, MA 02163 www.people.hbs.edu/iioannou "At bottom every man knows well enough that he is a unique being, only once on this earth; and by no extraordinary chance will such a marvelously picturesque piece of diversity in unity as he is, ever be put together a second time." Friedrich Nietzsche -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041105/b4980f09/attachment.html From AKarpathak at aol.com Fri Nov 5 09:59:28 2004 From: AKarpathak at aol.com (AKarpathak@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:38 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] greek americans in congress Message-ID: <29.6572ffdd.2ebd1980@aol.com> Hi Samuel: I can't speak to this question, but I do have a comment to make re: Greek Americans' nominations in local, i.e., city and state politics. A few years ago, one Greek American, Thermos, a solid grassroots activist taking cross racial, cross ethnic approaches to local politics was defeated by another Greek American, Giannaris, brought into the Democratic Party with the aim of defeating that "other" Greek American. This was in Astoria. Fast forward a few years: Flushing/Bayside, NYC, the area where the upwardly mobile Greek immigrants and Greek Americans are moving to: a Greek American was running on the Republican ticket, nominated by the Republicans in the 11th hour to oust the Democrat, a woman, with a solid record of pro-working class, women's, children's issues, public education etc. etc. etc. record. While I engaged the brother of this Greek American man running on the Republican ticket in a conversation, (playing dumb in these situations is always helpful to get to the heart of the matter,) I was told: "well, even if thru the Republicans, we will at least begin building our networks on the state level, any bit helps." The only thing the Republicans did not tell me or tell the Greek Americans of the area was that this non-Greek American woman running on the Democratic ticket, is married to a Greek American and as her mother said, "but her child is Greek." i.e., Greeks would have had the "in" and necessary connections anyway. >From my perspective, this type of politicking on the part of Greek Americans is completely irresponsible and unethical. i.e., Greek Americans are being used by the two-Party system on the local level and they are willing usees (??? one who is being used). Ethnicity is being used to gain political advantage and further split the electorate in this city, and of course, race is used on the national level. The Greek Americans do have money and votes. The two parties here, at least in NYC, are trying really hard to get their money and votes. And these Greek Americans better start thinking responsibly and ethically of their roles as representatives of MY community bcz I'm just getting sick of them!!! Anna K. In a message dated 11/4/2004 10:01:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, cvrhasd@techunix.technion.ac.il writes: Dear All As is customary after every US election, I was wondering if someone on the other side of the Atlantic can say something on Americans of Greek extraction in the new Houses of Congress. _______________________________________________ List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041105/da2e3bf5/attachment.html From maripaschal at hotmail.com Fri Nov 5 09:15:58 2004 From: maripaschal at hotmail.com (Maria Paschalidou) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:38 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] survey on artist statements Message-ID: I would be grateful if you could forward the following survey to your members so they can contribute to our investigation. Thank you for your support Maria Paschalidou “The Art of Artist Statement”: The politics of representation in Logos is an international invitational show of 13 artists. The exhibition will be hosted by the Hellenic Museum and Cultural Center in Chicago from February 18, 2005 – April 2, 2005. The opening reception will be held on Friday, February 18 at 6:00 p.m. – 9:00 p.m. The exhibition is being curated by the two artists, Georgia Kotretsos (MFA in Sculpture, The School of the Art Institute of Chicago) and Maria Paschalidou (MFA in Photography, Digital Imaging and Video, Columbia College Chicago). The exhibition will host a panel discussion on March 4, 2005. You will receive soon the press release announcing the participating artists and panelists of ‘The Art of Artist Statement’ exhibition. We are conducting a survey, which seeks the participation of art academicians, artists and curators for this research. The survey will be presented on March 4, 2005 at the panel discussion of the above exhibition. We will most appreciate your contribution to our investigation. We would like you to answer the following question and send your reply to this e-mail account by Friday, November 19, 2004: theartofartiststatement@yahoo.com THE QUESTION: Please state your position towards writing/reading/and the structure of the written document called ‘artist statement’ by using ONLY ONE of the following answers: Pro: I support the practice, existence and structure of the artist statement. Against: I do not support the practice, existence and structure of the artist statement. Indifferent: I have mixed feelings about the subject. Example of your reply must be one of the following: pro, against, or indifferent. We count on your collaboration Best, Georgia Kotretsos Maria Paschalidou _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.com/ From AKarpathak at aol.com Fri Nov 5 10:51:54 2004 From: AKarpathak at aol.com (AKarpathak@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:38 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Re: Letter to the President. Message-ID: <1dc.2f511e41.2ebd25ca@aol.com> Why the "pressure" is felt now and not four days ago? Anna K. In a message dated 11/5/2004 1:39:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, lists1@savidis.com writes: That interpretation is already making the rounds on the far right and far left blogs here in the states, and I am sure it has some currency in Greece, but really it isn't what happened. 1) The fact is a major donor of bush sr personally stopped imminent recognition by bush sr 13 year ago. Gligorov then attempted to force the US hand by going through Europe despite a Bush sr. attempt at an early compromise. 2) Greek American supporters of candidate Clinton successfully argued that Clinton should take a position in acknowledging Greece's legitimate concerns. Everyone knew at the time the goal was not to establish a permanent US policy against but to give Greece more leverage in negotiating a compromise. 3) Skopje was plenty stupid and intransigent, continuing to try and play between the Europeans and the US, and was helped in making a mess by certain elements in Greece (his initials are a. Samaras). 4) The Clinton administrating meanwhile came udder withering pressure, especially from State, and externally from George Soros. It decided to modify its position. 5) in the Greek American community everyone screamed bloody murder. some people argued for a recognition with some conditions (like Australia's) but most of the Greek American lobby decided to go for a photo op. 6) now additional pressures in Skopje, and issues of stablity were used by state to successfully press its 13-year-old position home. I don't think it is Machiavellian, it is just a 13-year-old pressure from state which no one Greek of influence stateside cared to resist any longer. -----Original Message----- From: mgsa-l-bounces@uci.edu [mailto:mgsa-l-bounces@uci.edu]On Behalf Of AKarpathak@aol.com Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 8:01 PM To: LYNGOS@aol.com; mgsa-l@uci.edu; ".@maillists.nac.uci.edu."@maillists.nac.uci.edu Subject: Re: [MGSA-L] Re: Letter to the President. Why are Greek Americans who voted for Bush surprised at this? It's pay back time for the position/support, etc. in Iraq. The goody bags are now gonna start rolling open for the good boys, too bad for those who took the alternative position. It's elementary my dear Watson. Ah... Machiavelli........ if only everyone was good at your game!!! Anna K. In a message dated 11/4/2004 3:24:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, LYNGOS@aol.com writes: >Dear Mr. President >Today I am released from my loyalty to you Sir and to your party. >In the millions of votes that you received in the elections of 2000 and 2004, >please count two votes less. >For someone who recognizes the Slavs and Albanians of F.Y.R.O.M. as >Macedonians and their country as Republic of Macedonia, you do not deserve them. >I wish I could take them back. > >So long Mr. President. >George Sofoklis Tsapanos >2027 E. Laura Ave. >Visalia, Ca 93292 >559-627-3346 >Lyngos@aol.com. > _______________________________________________ List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041105/6f26d628/attachment.html From lists1 at savidis.com Fri Nov 5 10:38:29 2004 From: lists1 at savidis.com (George Savidis) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:38 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Re: Letter to the President. In-Reply-To: <593CEF9B.68592420.09E588BC@aol.com> Message-ID: That interpretation is already making the rounds on the far right and far left blogs here in the states, and I am sure it has some currency in Greece, but really it isn't what happened. 1) The fact is a major donor of bush sr personally stopped imminent recognition by bush sr 13 year ago. Gligorov then attempted to force the US hand by going through Europe despite a Bush sr. attempt at an early compromise. 2) Greek American supporters of candidate Clinton successfully argued that Clinton should take a position in acknowledging Greece's legitimate concerns. Everyone knew at the time the goal was not to establish a permanent US policy against but to give Greece more leverage in negotiating a compromise. 3) Skopje was plenty stupid and intransigent, continuing to try and play between the Europeans and the US, and was helped in making a mess by certain elements in Greece (his initials are a. Samaras). 4) The Clinton administrating meanwhile came udder withering pressure, especially from State, and externally from George Soros. It decided to modify its position. 5) in the Greek American community everyone screamed bloody murder. some people argued for a recognition with some conditions (like Australia's) but most of the Greek American lobby decided to go for a photo op. 6) now additional pressures in Skopje, and issues of stablity were used by state to successfully press its 13-year-old position home. I don't think it is Machiavellian, it is just a 13-year-old pressure from state which no one Greek of influence stateside cared to resist any longer. -----Original Message----- From: mgsa-l-bounces@uci.edu [mailto:mgsa-l-bounces@uci.edu]On Behalf Of AKarpathak@aol.com Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 8:01 PM To: LYNGOS@aol.com; mgsa-l@uci.edu; ".@maillists.nac.uci.edu."@maillists.nac.uci.edu Subject: Re: [MGSA-L] Re: Letter to the President. Why are Greek Americans who voted for Bush surprised at this? It's pay back time for the position/support, etc. in Iraq. The goody bags are now gonna start rolling open for the good boys, too bad for those who took the alternative position. It's elementary my dear Watson. Ah... Machiavelli........ if only everyone was good at your game!!! Anna K. In a message dated 11/4/2004 3:24:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, LYNGOS@aol.com writes: >Dear Mr. President >Today I am released from my loyalty to you Sir and to your party. >In the millions of votes that you received in the elections of 2000 and 2004, >please count two votes less. >For someone who recognizes the Slavs and Albanians of F.Y.R.O.M. as >Macedonians and their country as Republic of Macedonia, you do not deserve them. >I wish I could take them back. > >So long Mr. President. >George Sofoklis Tsapanos >2027 E. Laura Ave. >Visalia, Ca 93292 >559-627-3346 >Lyngos@aol.com. > _______________________________________________ List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l From LYNGOS at aol.com Fri Nov 5 12:02:12 2004 From: LYNGOS at aol.com (LYNGOS@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:38 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Re: Letter to the President. Message-ID: <89.18fd7780.2ebd3644@aol.com> In a message dated 11/5/04 08:47:29 Pacific Standard Time, AKarpathak@aol.com writes: > Why are Greek Americans who voted for Bush surprised at this? It's pay > back time for the position/support, etc. in Iraq. The goody bags are now gonna > start rolling open for the good boys, too bad for those who took the > alternative position. It's elementary my dear Watson. > > Ah... Machiavelli........ if only everyone was good at your game!!! > > Anna K. Dear Anna Machiavelli in comparison to Balkan politics is like one of those five foolish vergins that took with them lamps but not oil. Actually we were not surprised, we were expecting it for long time. What infuriated us (me) was the timing and the timing has nothing to do with position/support by the F.Y.R.O.M.ians in Iraq. Simply, America was the ideator of an ethnic Makedonian salad (see the Axrida agreement), rather than ethnic/religious/linguistic self-determination for the Balkan people. The graduates from American Universities, making policies with various "think-tanks", never understood the Balkans let alone its people. Add to it the failure of the Anan plan in Cyprus, and the violations of Greek air-space in the Aegean and you might have a better icon as to what forced Washington to recognize F.Y.R.O.M. as "Republic of Makedonia". The American foreign-policy failed so far, time to exercise some pressure! And so......after the ultra-right in F.Y.R.O.M. asked and obtained a referendum with regards the new decentralization that would bring also a new definition of "official" languages in the various new municipalities, and after these same "think-tanks" and policy makers realized that were about to lose the game, they came with the idea (maybe with a small persuation by the F.Y.R.O.M.ians) that if they were going to recognize F.Y.R.O.M. as "Republic of Makedonia" such referendum would fail and everything will go according to their plans, in keeping the Balkan Muslims within the Balkans, rather than opening the doors for them to Europe and farther, let alone pushing Greece to the limits of its diplomatic obligations.Still, such action is not justified, it should have come *before* the elections not after. Are they going to succeed now that Aeolu's sacks have been open? I don't believe so. The Albanians that were going to vote against the referendum seeking recognition in various municipalities, namely Skopia and Struga, they are going to think twice if they indeed want to become "Makedonians", or if it will be better to wait another six months or so (my calculations) for an Independent Kossovo with which they can annex their portion of country in F.Y.R.O.M. And so.....they'll vote in *favor* of the referendum, separating themselves from the people that America just recognized as "Makedonians", keeping alive their hopes for a Union with Kossovo and destroying the Axrida agreements. After all, who can tell who voted for what, in order to blame them! On the other hand, even if they vote *against* the referendum, they have everything to gain because in that case the F.Y.R.O.M.ians must recognize them as equals and must make their language as the second official language in Axrida and Stuga as well as other municipalities, while the future Union with Kossovo remains still a possibility. The key of solving the crisis in the Balkans, wasn't recognizing F.Y.R.O.M. as "Republic of Makedonia" the key was to solve the Kossovo situation first and then procceed with F.Y.R.O.M. The way it was done, it favors the Albanians and nobody else, but maybe...........just maybe...........that whats all about! The good thing? It appears that for the first time in many years, the Hellenes have the will to work together. Karamanlis already made it clear that two VETO are ready, maybe even more Cyprus willing, against the entry of F.Y.R.O.M. in NATO and the EU under a name that is not going to be approved by Greece. Also, the good thing for the Democrats in this country, is that the newlly re-elected president Bush, most likely will not have the support of many Greek-Americans and this fact alone opens new questions to the future collaboration between the two parties. Machiavelli maybe wrote the "Prince" while vacationing in the Balkans.............! Regards to all...............L. George Sofoklis Tsapanos Visalia, Ca "Vlachs, the autochthonous of the Hellenic peninsula". -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041105/d9b290d3/attachment.html From dkatseto at bellatlantic.net Fri Nov 5 07:24:06 2004 From: dkatseto at bellatlantic.net (Christos D. Katsetos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:38 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Did Eleftherios Venizelos nominate Kemal Ataturk for theNobel (Peace) Prize? References: <003f01c4bfdb$347c9760$65804484@cv.technion.ac.il> Message-ID: <418B9B15.1217807A@bellatlantic.net> The Turkish claim that Eleftherios Venizelos nominated Mustafa Kemal Atat?rk for the Nobel Peace Prize in 1934 is corroborated in Andrew Mango's* book titled _Atat?rk: The Biography of the Founder of Modern Turkey_ [The Overlook Press: Woodstock & New York, 1999 -- ISBN 1-58567-334-X]. The author points out that "Venizelos put up Atat?rk for the Nobel peace prize [footnote 33] but without success" [ibid, p. 487]. The primary source is cited in footnote 33 [ibid, p. 615], which reads as follows: "Photocopy of letter which Venizelos addressed on 12 January, 1934 to the president of the Nobel Peace Committee (appointed by the Norwegian parliament) in newspaper Milliyet, 28 October, 1998, 1, 18." In the meantime, I have lodged an inquiry with the Norwegian Nobel Institute and will keep you apprised in due course. Incidentally, Dr. Hassid is in fact correct, insofar as Ishmet Pasha [?n?n?] did visit Athens in 1931 in reciprocation of Venizelos's earlier visit to Ankara in 1930. To this, I should like to add that Venizelos's successor, premier Panayiotis Tsaldaris, visited Ankara in 1933, where he was signatory of the Entente Cordiale. I would like to thank Drs. Baloglou and Hassid, as well as Mr. Tsapanos for their earlier responses and suggestions in this thread. C.D.K. Acknowledgments: I am indebted to historian Norman Itzkowitz (Professor Emeritus, Department of Near East Studies, Princeton University) for his invaluable input regarding this inquiry. Also, I would like to extend my thanks Dr. Alexander Kitroeff, and Professors Emeriti Michael C. Geokas, Vakim Volkan and Speros Vryonis for their helpful discussions. Footnote: [*] Formerly, Head of South European and French Language Services and in charge of BBC broadcasts in Turkish. See Memorandum from Dr. Andrew Mango regarding "UK's relations with Turkey" dated January 2002 and posted on the web site of the British Parliament. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200102/cmselect/cmfaff/606/606ap03.htm ===== Christos D. Katsetos, MD, PhD (Bergen), MRCPath Research Professor of Pediatrics Drexel University College of Medicine- Neuropathologist, Section of Neurology and Department of Pathology & Laboratory Medicine St. Christopher's Hospital for Children Erie Avenue at Front Street Philadelphia, PA 19134 cdk25@drexel.edu http://www.drexel.edu/med/neurosurgery/ped/news.html Samuel Hassid wrote: > Dear Baloglou > a. The intention I had was saying that I do NOT know the answer to the > question of Dr. Katsetos > b. I do not know the reasons that Ataturk did not reciprocate Venizelos' > visit - my impression is that No. 2 in The Kemalist regime Ismet Inonu did > visit Athens once. > c. My wild guess would be that in 1934 - when Venizelos was in the > opposition and was fighting for political survival - was not the best moment > to nominate Ataturk for a Nobel peace prize, given his total electoral > dependence on the votes of Minor Asia and E. Thrace refugees. Could it be > that he joined an initiative by others? Again, I am not sure. > d. If you want to see the meaning of the ancient greek saying "Plinthoi > Lithoi Keramoi ataktws eirimmenoi" try a visit to the greek newspaper > archive in Athens (The old Tobaco Factory in Lenorman Str.). > > _______________________________________________ > List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041105/c9c22e92/attachment.html From AKarpathak at aol.com Fri Nov 5 18:07:42 2004 From: AKarpathak at aol.com (AKarpathak@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:39 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Fwd: AHI Confirms No Change in US Policy Regarding FYROM Message-ID: <191.31aaf441.2ebd8bee@aol.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "American Hellenic Institute" Subject: AHI Confirms No Change in US Policy Regarding FYROM Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 17:42:17 -0500 Size: 6844 Url: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041105/40fda83a/attachment.mht From dkatseto at bellatlantic.net Fri Nov 5 09:50:06 2004 From: dkatseto at bellatlantic.net (Christos D. Katsetos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:39 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Re: Letter to the President. References: Message-ID: <418BBD4D.30E6CC3E@bellatlantic.net> George Savidis wrote: > 3) Skopje was plenty stupid and intransigent, continuing to try and play > between the Europeans and the US, and was helped in making a mess by certain > elements in Greece (his initials are a. Samaras). > The fact remains that Greek Foreign Minister Antonis Samaras rejected the proposal made by Portuguese Foreign Minister Pineiro regarding the -admittedly inappropriate- name "New Macedonia", as a 'compromise' state designation for Skopje. It is all-too-evident that then Prime Minister Constantine Mitsotakis was in fact keen to entertain the idea of a combined/ composite name. However, in an unprecedented turn of events he was effectively forced to acquiesce, albeit reluctantly, in the face of vehement opposition by the majority of his own party, ND. Most importantly though, Mitsotakis was confronted with the strong endorsement of Samaras's view [1] by the joint Council of Party Leaders presided by then President of the Hellenic Republic Constantine Karamanlis [...with the notable exception of Aleka Paparriga of the Greek Communist Party]. It is noteworthy that premier Mitsotakis's subsequent decision to fire Samaras and appoint himself as Foreign Minister -in a rather despotical fashion if I might add- is a clear indication as to Mitsotakis's modus operandi and fundamental opposition to the so-called "maximalist line," vis-?-vis "no Macedonia or its derivatives." [1] Doubtless, we should expect to hear a lot of blame about this "maximalist approach" in the days to come (predictably, in a scholarly fashion AND as always, on hindsight...) At the same time, one wonders what was the Greek strategy on the matter from 1995/1996 to date, under the 'tutelage' of the state-sponsored Greek foreign policy 'think tank' ELIAMEP? [2] C.D.K. [1] See "Greece's Macedonian Adventure: The Controversy over FYROM's Independence and Recognition" by Dr. Evangelos Kofos. http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Contributions/contr_Kofos19990705.html [2] http://www.eliamep.gr/4/7/text.asp?pub_link_id=242 http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Opinion/comm_20040314Veremis.html http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Opinion/comm_20010304Couloumbis.html George Savidis wrote: > That interpretation is already making the rounds on the far right and far > left blogs here in the states, and I am sure it has some currency in Greece, > but really it isn't what happened. > > 1) The fact is a major donor of bush sr personally stopped imminent > recognition by bush sr 13 year ago. Gligorov then attempted to force the US > hand by going through Europe despite a Bush sr. attempt at an early > compromise. > > 2) Greek American supporters of candidate Clinton successfully argued that > Clinton should take a position in acknowledging Greece's legitimate > concerns. Everyone knew at the time the goal was not to establish a > permanent US policy against but to give Greece more leverage in negotiating > a compromise. > > 3) Skopje was plenty stupid and intransigent, continuing to try and play > between the Europeans and the US, and was helped in making a mess by certain > elements in Greece (his initials are a. Samaras). > > 4) The Clinton administrating meanwhile came udder withering pressure, > especially from State, and externally from George Soros. It decided to > modify its position. > > 5) in the Greek American community everyone screamed bloody murder. some > people argued for a recognition with some conditions (like Australia's) but > most of the Greek American lobby decided to go for a photo op. > > 6) now additional pressures in Skopje, and issues of stablity were used by > state to successfully press its 13-year-old position home. > > I don't think it is Machiavellian, it is just a 13-year-old pressure from > state which no one Greek of influence stateside cared to resist any longer. > > -----Original Message----- > From: mgsa-l-bounces@uci.edu [mailto:mgsa-l-bounces@uci.edu]On Behalf Of > AKarpathak@aol.com > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 8:01 PM > To: LYNGOS@aol.com; mgsa-l@uci.edu; > ".@maillists.nac.uci.edu."@maillists.nac.uci.edu > Subject: Re: [MGSA-L] Re: Letter to the President. > > Why are Greek Americans who voted for Bush surprised at this? It's pay back > time for the position/support, etc. in Iraq. The goody bags are now gonna > start rolling open for the good boys, too bad for those who took the > alternative position. It's elementary my dear Watson. > > Ah... Machiavelli........ if only everyone was good at your game!!! > > Anna K. > > In a message dated 11/4/2004 3:24:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, > LYNGOS@aol.com writes: > > >Dear Mr. President > >Today I am released from my loyalty to you Sir and to your party. > >In the millions of votes that you received in the elections of 2000 and > 2004, > >please count two votes less. > >For someone who recognizes the Slavs and Albanians of F.Y.R.O.M. as > >Macedonians and their country as Republic of Macedonia, you do not deserve > them. > >I wish I could take them back. > > > >So long Mr. President. > >George Sofoklis Tsapanos > >2027 E. Laura Ave. > >Visalia, Ca 93292 > >559-627-3346 > >Lyngos@aol.com. > > > _______________________________________________ > List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l > > _______________________________________________ > List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041106/81c8e80a/attachment.html From AKarpathak at aol.com Fri Nov 5 18:11:57 2004 From: AKarpathak at aol.com (AKarpathak@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:39 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Re: Letter to the President. Message-ID: <36.66040ace.2ebd8ced@aol.com> What were Australia's conditions on the name recognition? Anna K. In a message dated 11/5/2004 4:32:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, lists1@savidis.com writes: 5) in the Greek American community everyone screamed bloody murder. some people argued for a recognition with some conditions (like Australia's) but most of the Greek American lobby decided to go for a photo op. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041105/0aa7bdbd/attachment.html From dkatseto at bellatlantic.net Fri Nov 5 17:13:47 2004 From: dkatseto at bellatlantic.net (Christos D. Katsetos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:39 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] greek americans in congress References: <29.6572ffdd.2ebd1980@aol.com> Message-ID: <418C254A.624C9CDE@bellatlantic.net> To my knowledge, there are three incumbent members in both houses of Congress who identify themselves as having Greek ancestry. Two are US senators and one is a US representative (congressman). In the US Senate: -- Senator Paul S. Sarbanes, D-Maryland http://sarbanes.senate.gov/ [Historically, the powerhouse on Greek affairs in the US Senate.] -- Senator Olympia Snow, R-Maine http://snowe.senate.gov/ [First generation Greek American whose parents came from Mytilene (Lesbos) and Sparta. She attended St. Basil's Academy, which is a Greek Orthodox school in Garrison, New York and declares to be a member of the Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox Church in Lewiston, Maine.] In the US House of Representatives: -- Representative Mike Bilirakis, R-Florida 9th District http://www.house.gov/bilirakis/ [Co-founder of the so-called "Hellenic Caucus", which is a bi-partisan group in the House founded by Representatives Bilirakis and Carolyn Maloney (D-New York 14th District) in 1996. The Hellenic Caucus has 76 members in the 108th US Congress.] http://www.ahepa.org/news/releases/2004/1008_108th_HC.htm C.D.K. AKarpathak@aol.com wrote: > Hi Samuel: I can't speak to this question, but I do have a comment to > make re: Greek Americans' nominations in local, i.e., city and state > politics.A few years ago, one Greek American, Thermos, a solid > grassroots activist taking cross racial, cross ethnic approaches to > local politics was defeated by another Greek American, Giannaris, > brought into the Democratic Party with the aim of defeating that > "other" Greek American. This was in Astoria. Fast forward a few > years: Flushing/Bayside, NYC, the area where the upwardly mobile Greek > immigrants and Greek Americans are moving to: a Greek American was > running on the Republican ticket, nominated by the Republicans in the > 11th hour to oust the Democrat, a woman, with a solid record of > pro-working class, women's, children's issues, public education etc. > etc. etc. record. While I engaged the brother of this Greek American > man running on the Republican ticket in a conversation, (playing dumb > in these situations is always helpful to get to the heart of the > matter,) I was told: "well, even if thru the Republicans, we will at > least begin building our networks on the state level, any bit > helps." The only thing the Republicans did not tell me or tell the > Greek Americans of the area was that this non-Greek American woman > running on the Democratic ticket, is married to a Greek American and > as her mother said, "but her child is Greek." i.e., Greeks would have > had the "in" and necessary connections anyway.From my perspective, > this type of politicking on the part of Greek Americans is completely > irresponsible and unethical. i.e., Greek Americans are being used > by the two-Party system on the local level and they are willing usees > (??? one who is being used). Ethnicity is being used to gain > political advantage and further split the electorate in this city, and > of course, race is used on the national level. The Greek Americans do > have money and votes. The two parties here, at least in NYC, are > trying really hard to get their money and votes. And these Greek > Americans better start thinking responsibly and ethically of their > roles as representatives of MY community bcz I'm just getting sick of > them!!! Anna K. In a message dated 11/4/2004 10:01:56 AM Eastern > Standard Time, cvrhasd@techunix.technion.ac.il writes: > > Dear All As is customary after every US election, I was > wondering if someone on the other side of the Atlantic can > say something on Americans of Greek extraction in the new > Houses of Congress. > > _______________________________________________ > List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041106/36119e27/attachment.html From lists1 at savidis.com Sat Nov 6 03:37:11 2004 From: lists1 at savidis.com (George Savidis) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:39 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Re: Letter to the President. In-Reply-To: <36.66040ace.2ebd8ced@aol.com> Message-ID: By mid January 94 it was clear Australia would give recognition. It made its intentions known to Papulias and Pangalos during Evans Athens visit in jan 94. After that visit Canberra decision to recognize but with conditions such as not recognizing the flag was common knowledge in DC. They followed US recognition within days but kept those conditions. Keep in mind you have recognition coupled and "intent" to establish "diplomatic relations" allowing for a technical space of time which can be immediate or delayed. hence there was still some room for Washington to apply pressure. By setting out the flag issue ad other conditions Canberra gave some legitimacy to the stated Greek concerns. Skopje did indeed complain about the conditions. On the US side Washington began informing interested parties as to its decision to recognize ahead of time. How each interested party reacted in the interim and aftermath is an interesting story in itself. -----Original Message----- From: mgsa-l-bounces@uci.edu [mailto:mgsa-l-bounces@uci.edu]On Behalf Of AKarpathak@aol.com Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 9:12 PM To: lists1@savidis.com; mgsa-l@uci.edu Subject: Re: [MGSA-L] Re: Letter to the President. What were Australia's conditions on the name recognition? Anna K. In a message dated 11/5/2004 4:32:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, lists1@savidis.com writes: 5) in the Greek American community everyone screamed bloody murder. some people argued for a recognition with some conditions (like Australia's) but most of the Greek American lobby decided to go for a photo op. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041106/bd54a91a/attachment.html From riedelbs at rice.edu Sat Nov 6 05:47:58 2004 From: riedelbs at rice.edu (Brian Riedel) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:39 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] The Stone Age of Arch. Christodoulos In-Reply-To: <15.37238201.2ebd13ec@aol.com> Message-ID: While by no means an expert on the Church, I can attest that this sort of commentary on current events runs back at least a few years, and does not represent a startling new trend. During the run up to the trial of Yasser Hamada and Tzannetos Tzapatzaris in 2001, on charges linked to the infamous article 347, various members of the Church were actively promoting similar perspectives in the media. Brian Riedel PhD Candidate Department of Anthropology Rice University on 11/5/04 11:35 AM, AKarpathak@aol.com at AKarpathak@aol.com wrote: For those of u studying gender and sexuality issues, why the issue of homosexuality now in the Greek Church? Theories???? Explanations??? The Church went from political nationalism to solidly placing itself in the ranks of right wing conservative churches by entering the area of sexuality. Is the issue of reproductive rights next??? WHY??? What is going on??? (And yes, that is probably somebody's dissertation or book, but, please, share some of this stuff with us.) Anna K. In a message dated 10/31/2004 9:38:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, iioannou@hbs.edu writes: http://www.typos.com.cy/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=46930 Ioannis Ioannou Doctoral Student PhD Business Economics Harvard Economics Dept and Business School Boston, MA 02163 www.people.hbs.edu/iioannou -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041106/13cbd50c/attachment.html From mango at gate.net Sat Nov 6 10:26:30 2004 From: mango at gate.net (Slavko Mangovski) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:39 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Fwd: AHI Confirms No Change in US Policy Regarding FYROM References: <191.31aaf441.2ebd8bee@aol.com> Message-ID: <00fc01c4c42e$26938bc0$6501a8c0@main> This from today's Kathimerini: An inevitable blow? By T. Economopoulos The timing of the USA's move to recognize the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM) as "the Republic of Macedonia" - and the indelicate way in which it was made known - may have been a surprise to Greece but, if we want to be honest with ourselves, this development had been on the cards for at least the last 10 years. We are all fully aware, from reading foreign newspapers and listening to foreign television channels, that the overwhelming majority refer to our neighboring country by its constitutional name "Macedonia"; that's just the way it is. The country may be referred to as FYROM in official documents, and Greece may complain every time a foreign official refers to it as "Macedonia," but there can be no doubt about the fact that this is how it is recognized and referred to all over the world in everyday language. Since the "bombshell" hit us on Thursday, the more clear-headed among us cannot but regret the shortsighted approach to the matter over the past 13 years by successive governments - all of whom postponed a final decision so as not to lose political face - and the fact that the whole affair has blown up into a major domestic problem for no essential reason. Just think that all those who had argued that Greece had no reason to make an enemy of its poor neighbor, that it could turn it into a staunch ally with a few high-minded gestures, had been scorned... http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_columns_2398649_06/11/2004_49213 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041106/8c25222d/attachment.html From C.Buhayer at westminster.ac.uk Sun Nov 7 04:44:46 2004 From: C.Buhayer at westminster.ac.uk (C.Buhayer@westminster.ac.uk) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:39 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Re: Letter to the President. In-Reply-To: <418BBD4D.30E6CC3E@bellatlantic.net> References: <418BBD4D.30E6CC3E@bellatlantic.net> Message-ID: <1099831486.418e18be9d1c8@webmail.wmin.ac.uk> How Athens missed the boat in 1992: (I was working as a researcher on the Macedonian question on a production for SBS and PBS ? it was never broadcast because there was ?no blood?). After the June 1992 Lisbon European Summit that refused to recognise a country with the name ?Macedonia?, Greece believed it could rest on its laurels. It was the 'kalokeraki', and all diplomats, politicians and media were on holiday. Yugoslavia could wait for September. The Makedonci, on the other hand, went into overdrive. Though I strongly believe the designation ?RoM? holds inherent dangers, it was probably their finest hour. Makedonci students, aspiring journalists, diaspora volunteers and politicians mobilised to forward their case, addressing academic conferences on Yugoslavia and petitioning. By mid summer, the Yugoslav situation was becoming untenable. An international conference for world leaders was called in London for late August. In between (date?), there was an emergency UN meeting in New York including the Macedonian question. The Samaras team arrived. They sat at the table and were immediately asked to present their case on Macedonia. Nothing had been prepared. Samaras turned to Mr Kofos and asked him to put something together, on the spot. The dear expert did his best to verbalise in 2 minutes on a scrap of paper, the mental imbroglio of his political masters. By late August, governments from around the world descended on central London, as well as the world media and many activists (EU, US, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, ex-Yugoslavs ) The Greeks had been caught napping and (literally) irritated at having to interrupt their holidays. Crucially, there was also a fringe summit on Yugoslavia taking place down the road. The Greek officials (including all the journalists) never set foot in it. Wrong choice, because it proved to contain the future crop of upcoming journalists and authors who would make their name over the Yugoslav wars; they invariably became critical of Greece. At the conference, there was an insatiable hunger in the air to be informed about the incomprehensible developments in Yugoslavia. And who was at hand? The Makedonci. They were available to everyone with a strong message that was repeated by their politicians, journalists and their tiny diaspora of volunteers: 'we are the only peaceful, multicultural republic and we are being punished by our southern neighbour who claims our borders'. On the other hand, Greek journalists couldn?t explain much about the situation and seemed to prefer Oxford Street window shopping to the press conferences. The Greek officials were distant and seemingly competing amongst themselves for ministerial favours, to answer any questions. The Makedonci all spoke from the same lung and they were genuinely fearful for the future of their land. By the end of the conference, for Greece, the situation had become almost irreversible. Also, soon there were Cypriot officials irritated at Greece for being concerned with the situation north of its borders, rather than working for them at the EU. The following year, September 1993, the political choices of Mr Papandreou and his minister made certain Greece?s name was dragged through the media mud and Athens became the scapegoat for Europe?s shambolic foreign policy. By the late 1990s and 2000s, finance minister Papandoniou was talking about ?Macedonia?, at international events, Greek FM Papandreou was attending meetings where FYROM was officially mentioned as Republic of Macedonia, and Elladic Greek international experts and students at the LSE and the US were talking about Macedonia, meaning the republic. As for Greeks, they became the most important investors in the Republic with their passport filled with RoM stamps. Problem? What problem? Meanwhile, the Dimokratia ton Skopion, as we say in Greek, is and will remain Greece?s most necessary neighbour. Filika CB Quoting "Christos D. Katsetos" : > George Savidis wrote: > > > > 3) Skopje was plenty stupid and intransigent, continuing to try and play > > between the Europeans and the US, and was helped in making a mess by > certain > > elements in Greece (his initials are a. Samaras). > > > > > > > The fact remains that Greek Foreign Minister Antonis Samaras rejected the > proposal made by Portuguese Foreign Minister Pineiro regarding the > -admittedly > inappropriate- name "New Macedonia", as a 'compromise' state designation for > Skopje. It is all-too-evident that then Prime Minister Constantine > Mitsotakis > was in fact keen to entertain the idea of a combined/ composite name. > However, > in an unprecedented turn of events he was effectively forced to acquiesce, > albeit reluctantly, in the face of vehement opposition by the majority of > his > own party, ND. Most importantly though, Mitsotakis was confronted with the > strong endorsement of Samaras's view [1] by the joint Council of Party > Leaders > presided by then President of the Hellenic Republic Constantine Karamanlis > [...with the notable exception of Aleka Paparriga of the Greek Communist > Party]. > > It is noteworthy that premier Mitsotakis's subsequent decision to fire > Samaras > and appoint himself as Foreign Minister -in a rather despotical fashion if I > might add- is a clear indication as to Mitsotakis's modus operandi and > fundamental opposition to the so-called "maximalist line," vis-?-vis "no > Macedonia or its derivatives." [1] > > Doubtless, we should expect to hear a lot of blame about this "maximalist > approach" in the days to come (predictably, in a scholarly fashion AND as > always, on hindsight...) At the same time, one wonders what was the Greek > strategy on the matter from 1995/1996 to date, under the 'tutelage' of the > state-sponsored Greek foreign policy 'think tank' ELIAMEP? [2] > > C.D.K. > > [1] See "Greece's Macedonian Adventure: The Controversy over FYROM's > Independence and Recognition" by Dr. Evangelos Kofos. > http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Contributions/contr_Kofos19990705.html > > [2] http://www.eliamep.gr/4/7/text.asp?pub_link_id=242 > http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Opinion/comm_20040314Veremis.html > http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Opinion/comm_20010304Couloumbis.html > > George Savidis wrote: > > > That interpretation is already making the rounds on the far right and far > > left blogs here in the states, and I am sure it has some currency in > Greece, > > but really it isn't what happened. > > > > 1) The fact is a major donor of bush sr personally stopped imminent > > recognition by bush sr 13 year ago. Gligorov then attempted to force the > US > > hand by going through Europe despite a Bush sr. attempt at an early > > compromise. > > > > 2) Greek American supporters of candidate Clinton successfully argued that > > Clinton should take a position in acknowledging Greece's legitimate > > concerns. Everyone knew at the time the goal was not to establish a > > permanent US policy against but to give Greece more leverage in > negotiating > > a compromise. > > > > 3) Skopje was plenty stupid and intransigent, continuing to try and play > > between the Europeans and the US, and was helped in making a mess by > certain > > elements in Greece (his initials are a. Samaras). > > > > 4) The Clinton administrating meanwhile came udder withering pressure, > > especially from State, and externally from George Soros. It decided to > > modify its position. > > > > 5) in the Greek American community everyone screamed bloody murder. some > > people argued for a recognition with some conditions (like Australia's) > but > > most of the Greek American lobby decided to go for a photo op. > > > > 6) now additional pressures in Skopje, and issues of stablity were used by > > state to successfully press its 13-year-old position home. > > > > I don't think it is Machiavellian, it is just a 13-year-old pressure from > > state which no one Greek of influence stateside cared to resist any > longer. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: mgsa-l-bounces@uci.edu [mailto:mgsa-l-bounces@uci.edu]On Behalf Of > > AKarpathak@aol.com > > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 8:01 PM > > To: LYNGOS@aol.com; mgsa-l@uci.edu; > > ".@maillists.nac.uci.edu."@maillists.nac.uci.edu > > Subject: Re: [MGSA-L] Re: Letter to the President. > > > > Why are Greek Americans who voted for Bush surprised at this? It's pay > back > > time for the position/support, etc. in Iraq. The goody bags are now gonna > > start rolling open for the good boys, too bad for those who took the > > alternative position. It's elementary my dear Watson. > > > > Ah... Machiavelli........ if only everyone was good at your game!!! > > > > Anna K. > > > > In a message dated 11/4/2004 3:24:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > LYNGOS@aol.com writes: > > > > >Dear Mr. President > > >Today I am released from my loyalty to you Sir and to your party. > > >In the millions of votes that you received in the elections of 2000 and > > 2004, > > >please count two votes less. > > >For someone who recognizes the Slavs and Albanians of F.Y.R.O.M. as > > >Macedonians and their country as Republic of Macedonia, you do not > deserve > > them. > > >I wish I could take them back. > > > > > >So long Mr. President. > > >George Sofoklis Tsapanos > > >2027 E. Laura Ave. > > >Visalia, Ca 93292 > > >559-627-3346 > > >Lyngos@aol.com. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l > From dkatseto at bellatlantic.net Sat Nov 6 19:31:57 2004 From: dkatseto at bellatlantic.net (Christos D. Katsetos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:40 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] greek americans in congress References: <29.6572ffdd.2ebd1980@aol.com> <418C254A.624C9CDE@bellatlantic.net> <004e01c4c47c$ac67f760$2812b7d1@globalserve.net> Message-ID: <418D972D.487BE2B2@bellatlantic.net> Dear Mr. Gedeon, I am not at all sure whether I deserve this praise, but would like to thank you for your kind and most generous words. I would like to use this opportunity to mention that I have inadvertently omitted to include the name of Rep. Shelley Berkley, member of the US House of Representatives (D-Nevada 1st District), among the current members of both houses who identify themselves as having Greek ancestry. http://www.house.gov/berkley/services/resources/presskit/biography.html I would like to thank my good friend, Dr. Samuel Hassid, in this regard and also, for bringing to my attention a relevant article published in today's issue of the Greek daily Eleftherotypia (which, obviously, did a much better job than I in answering his timely question). http://www.enet.gr/online/online_text?c=111&id=87235964 Congresswoman Berkley, who has a Greek Jewish ancestry and is a member of the Hellenic Caucus http://www.ahepa.org/news/releases/2004/1008_108th_HC.htm was one of the dignitaries who attended the ceremony held at the Jewish Holocaust Monument in Thessaloniki last year. http://www.usconsulate.gr/berkley.html http://www.house.gov/berkley/legis/otr/statements/fs_2004_0422a.html http://www.hri.org/news/greek/mpa/2003/03-05-29.mpa.html http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2003/May-31-Sat-2003/news/21435263.html Yours, Christos D. Katsetos George Gedeon wrote: > I'd like to propose to this list that we all extend our special "thank > yous" to Mr. Katsetos for his tireless work to keep up informed with > his diverse sources and footnotes and reasonable and moderate love for > anything Hellenic. His enthusiasm and polite manners are also > appreciated by this anth-Ellina. When "hot" topics usually brought the > worst out of some of us, including myself, Mr. Katsetos kept his > "cool" and never stopped being a gentleman. Rather than becoming > hysterical, cynical or personal, Mr. Katsetos brought forward > fascinating academic material to help us through our arguments. God > Bless you Mr. Katsetos and may you always have the strength and health > to keep us informed. You are priceless. George GedeonToronto, Canada > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Christos D. Katsetos > To: cvrhasd@techunix.technion.ac.il > Cc: mgsa-l@uci.edu ; AKarpathak@aol.com > Sent: November 5, 2004 8:13 PM > Subject: Re: [MGSA-L] greek americans in congress > To my knowledge, there are three incumbent members in both > houses of Congress who identify themselves as having Greek > ancestry. Two are US senators and one is a US > representative (congressman). > > In the US Senate: > > -- Senator Paul S. Sarbanes, D-Maryland > http://sarbanes.senate.gov/ > [Historically, the powerhouse on Greek affairs in the US > Senate.] > > -- Senator Olympia Snow, R-Maine http://snowe.senate.gov/ > [First generation Greek American whose parents came from > Mytilene (Lesbos) and Sparta. > She attended St. Basil's Academy, which is a Greek Orthodox > school in Garrison, New York and declares to be a member of > the Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox Church in Lewiston, Maine.] > > In the US House of Representatives: > > -- Representative Mike Bilirakis, R-Florida 9th District > http://www.house.gov/bilirakis/ > [Co-founder of the so-called "Hellenic Caucus", which is a > bi-partisan group in the House founded by Representatives > Bilirakis and Carolyn Maloney (D-New York 14th District) in > 1996. The Hellenic Caucus has 76 members in the 108th US > Congress.] > http://www.ahepa.org/news/releases/2004/1008_108th_HC.htm > > C.D.K. > > > > AKarpathak@aol.com wrote: > > > Hi Samuel: I can't speak to this question, but I do have > > a comment to make re: Greek Americans' nominations in > > local, i.e., city and state politics.A few years ago, one > > Greek American, Thermos, a solid grassroots activist > > taking cross racial, cross ethnic approaches to local > > politics was defeated by another Greek American, > > Giannaris, brought into the Democratic Party with the aim > > of defeating that "other" Greek American. This was in > > Astoria. Fast forward a few years: Flushing/Bayside, NYC, > > the area where the upwardly mobile Greek immigrants and > > Greek Americans are moving to: a Greek American was > > running on the Republican ticket, nominated by the > > Republicans in the 11th hour to oust the Democrat, a > > woman, with a solid record of pro-working class, women's, > > children's issues, public education etc. etc. etc. > > record. While I engaged the brother of this Greek > > American man running on the Republican ticket in a > > conversation, (playing dumb in these situations is always > > helpful to get to the heart of the matter,) I was told: > > "well, even if thru the Republicans, we will at least > > begin building our networks on the state level, any bit > > helps." The only thing the Republicans did not tell me > > or tell the Greek Americans of the area was that this > > non-Greek American woman running on the Democratic ticket, > > is married to a Greek American and as her mother said, > > "but her child is Greek." i.e., Greeks would have had the > > "in" and necessary connections anyway.From my perspective, > > this type of politicking on the part of Greek Americans is > > completely irresponsible and unethical. i.e., Greek > > Americans are being used by the two-Party system on the > > local level and they are willing usees (??? one who is > > being used). Ethnicity is being used to gain political > > advantage and further split the electorate in this city, > > and of course, race is used on the national level. The > > Greek Americans do have money and votes. The two parties > > here, at least in NYC, are trying really hard to get their > > money and votes. And these Greek Americans better start > > thinking responsibly and ethically of their roles as > > representatives of MY community bcz I'm just getting sick > > of them!!! Anna K. In a message dated 11/4/2004 10:01:56 > > AM Eastern Standard Time, cvrhasd@techunix.technion.ac.il > > writes: > > > > Dear All As is customary after every US > > election, I was wondering if someone on the > > other side of the Atlantic can say something on > > Americans of Greek extraction in the new Houses > > of Congress. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List-Info: > > https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l > > > > ----------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > > List-Info: > > https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l > > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > > _______________________________________________ > List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041107/cb111be0/attachment.html From AKarpathak at aol.com Sat Nov 6 14:52:44 2004 From: AKarpathak at aol.com (AKarpathak@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:40 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Re: Letter to the President. Message-ID: <1c1.20210406.2ebeafbc@aol.com> I can just see him... sunglasses, tall iced lemonade under an umbrella... In a message dated 11/5/2004 3:02:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, LYNGOS writes: Machiavelli maybe wrote the "Prince" while vacationing in the Balkans.............! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041106/83629bde/attachment.html From AKarpathak at aol.com Sat Nov 6 15:10:09 2004 From: AKarpathak at aol.com (AKarpathak@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:40 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Re: Letter to the President. Message-ID: <1c3.2064a2f4.2ebeb3d1@aol.com> George: the day after Bush did this a non-Greek friend asked: "so which idiot of a Greek American gave Bush sh*** loads of money bcz of the daddy" (and no longer had to worry about getting more for his next re-election, presumably.) Anyway, as to the referendum, the Albanians will vote for it, the "Macedonians" will get "scr***", they are losing one way or the other over the next two years--u say six months, I give it a little over a year, in the meantime they lose important investment and in the next year a potentially important ally in the form of a Balkan neighbor over a name... not smart politics on their part, not smart. And Greeks are scr*** over an important ally in the Balkans over a name... bad politics all in the name of "ethnic heritage, history, pride" on both their parts, ignoring the realities of the current situation. On this last point u will probably disagree on altho the rest we both agree on. And in the last analysis, the supra-nationalists are either happy or screaming bloody murder, as if any of this really means anything in real time politics. Anna K. In a message dated 11/5/2004 3:02:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, LYNGOS writes: Dear Anna Machiavelli in comparison to Balkan politics is like one of those five foolish vergins that took with them lamps but not oil. Actually we were not surprised, we were expecting it for long time. What infuriated us (me) was the timing and the timing has nothing to do with position/support by the F.Y.R.O.M.ians in Iraq. Simply, America was the ideator of an ethnic Makedonian salad (see the Axrida agreement), rather than ethnic/religious/linguistic self-determination for the Balkan people. The graduates from American Universities, making policies with various "think-tanks", never understood the Balkans let alone its people. Add to it the failure of the Anan plan in Cyprus, and the violations of Greek air-space in the Aegean and you might have a better icon as to what forced Washington to recognize F.Y.R.O.M. as "Republic of Makedonia". The American foreign-policy failed so far, time to exercise some pressure! And so......after the ultra-right in F.Y.R.O.M. asked and obtained a referendum with regards the new decentralization that would bring also a new definition of "official" languages in the various new municipalities, and after these same "think-tanks" and policy makers realized that were about to lose the game, they came with the idea (maybe with a small persuation by the F.Y.R.O.M.ians) that if they were going to recognize F.Y.R.O.M. as "Republic of Makedonia" such referendum would fail and everything will go according to their plans, in keeping the Balkan Muslims within the Balkans, rather than opening the doors for them to Europe and farther, let alone pushing Greece to the limits of its diplomatic obligations.Still, such action is not justified, it should have come *before* the elections not after. Are they going to succeed now that Aeolu's sacks have been open? I don't believe so. The Albanians that were going to vote against the referendum seeking recognition in various municipalities, namely Skopia and Struga, they are going to think twice if they indeed want to become "Makedonians", or if it will be better to wait another six months or so (my calculations) for an Independent Kossovo with which they can annex their portion of country in F.Y.R.O.M. And so.....they'll vote in *favor* of the referendum, separating themselves from the people that America just recognized as "Makedonians", keeping alive their hopes for a Union with Kossovo and destroying the Axrida agreements. After all, who can tell who voted for what, in order to blame them! On the other hand, even if they vote *against* the referendum, they have everything to gain because in that case the F.Y.R.O.M.ians must recognize them as equals and must make their language as the second official language in Axrida and Stuga as well as other municipalities, while the future Union with Kossovo remains still a possibility. The key of solving the crisis in the Balkans, wasn't recognizing F.Y.R.O.M. as "Republic of Makedonia" the key was to solve the Kossovo situation first and then procceed with F.Y.R.O.M. The way it was done, it favors the Albanians and nobody else, but maybe...........just maybe...........that whats all about! The good thing? It appears that for the first time in many years, the Hellenes have the will to work together. Karamanlis already made it clear that two VETO are ready, maybe even more Cyprus willing, against the entry of F.Y.R.O.M. in NATO and the EU under a name that is not going to be approved by Greece. Also, the good thing for the Democrats in this country, is that the newlly re-elected president Bush, most likely will not have the support of many Greek-Americans and this fact alone opens new questions to the future collaboration between the two parties. Machiavelli maybe wrote the "Prince" while vacationing in the Balkans.............! Regards to all...............L. George Sofoklis Tsapanos Visalia, Ca "Vlachs, the autochthonous of the Hellenic peninsula". -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041106/3a577c1a/attachment.html From cvrhasd at techunix.technion.ac.il Sun Nov 7 08:20:19 2004 From: cvrhasd at techunix.technion.ac.il (Samuel Hassid) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:40 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Fwd: AHI Confirms No Change in US Policy Regarding FYROM References: <191.31aaf441.2ebd8bee@aol.com> <00fc01c4c42e$26938bc0$6501a8c0@main> Message-ID: <025201c4c4e5$ac85c7e0$65804484@cv.technion.ac.il> It is unfortunate that this newspaper - one of the most accurate in Greece with a very old tradition - has the bad habit of publishing articles which sound completely different when translated into english. Last time I came accross this is when they published the interview of Mikis Thodorakis with Haaretz ... I suggest that those who reed greek read the - much larger - article of teh same Thanos Oikonomopoulos to obtain a rather different impression than the one of the english edition. http://www.kathimerini.gr/4dcgi/news/columns_312908KathiLev&xml/&aspKath/columns.asp?fdate=05/11/2004 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041107/4a130a40/attachment.html From gedeon at globalserve.net Sat Nov 6 19:44:02 2004 From: gedeon at globalserve.net (George Gedeon) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:40 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] greek americans in congress References: <29.6572ffdd.2ebd1980@aol.com> <418C254A.624C9CDE@bellatlantic.net> Message-ID: <004e01c4c47c$ac67f760$2812b7d1@globalserve.net> I'd like to propose to this list that we all extend our special "thank yous" to Mr. Katsetos for his tireless work to keep up informed with his diverse sources and footnotes and reasonable and moderate love for anything Hellenic. His enthusiasm and polite manners are also appreciated by this anth-Ellina. When "hot" topics usually brought the worst out of some of us, including myself, Mr. Katsetos kept his "cool" and never stopped being a gentleman. Rather than becoming hysterical, cynical or personal, Mr. Katsetos brought forward fascinating academic material to help us through our arguments. God Bless you Mr. Katsetos and may you always have the strength and health to keep us informed. You are priceless. George Gedeon Toronto, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: Christos D. Katsetos To: cvrhasd@techunix.technion.ac.il Cc: mgsa-l@uci.edu ; AKarpathak@aol.com Sent: November 5, 2004 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [MGSA-L] greek americans in congress To my knowledge, there are three incumbent members in both houses of Congress who identify themselves as having Greek ancestry. Two are US senators and one is a US representative (congressman). In the US Senate: -- Senator Paul S. Sarbanes, D-Maryland http://sarbanes.senate.gov/ [Historically, the powerhouse on Greek affairs in the US Senate.] -- Senator Olympia Snow, R-Maine http://snowe.senate.gov/ [First generation Greek American whose parents came from Mytilene (Lesbos) and Sparta. She attended St. Basil's Academy, which is a Greek Orthodox school in Garrison, New York and declares to be a member of the Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox Church in Lewiston, Maine.] In the US House of Representatives: -- Representative Mike Bilirakis, R-Florida 9th District http://www.house.gov/bilirakis/ [Co-founder of the so-called "Hellenic Caucus", which is a bi-partisan group in the House founded by Representatives Bilirakis and Carolyn Maloney (D-New York 14th District) in 1996. The Hellenic Caucus has 76 members in the 108th US Congress.] http://www.ahepa.org/news/releases/2004/1008_108th_HC.htm C.D.K. AKarpathak@aol.com wrote: Hi Samuel: I can't speak to this question, but I do have a comment to make re: Greek Americans' nominations in local, i.e., city and state politics.A few years ago, one Greek American, Thermos, a solid grassroots activist taking cross racial, cross ethnic approaches to local politics was defeated by another Greek American, Giannaris, brought into the Democratic Party with the aim of defeating that "other" Greek American. This was in Astoria. Fast forward a few years: Flushing/Bayside, NYC, the area where the upwardly mobile Greek immigrants and Greek Americans are moving to: a Greek American was running on the Republican ticket, nominated by the Republicans in the 11th hour to oust the Democrat, a woman, with a solid record of pro-working class, women's, children's issues, public education etc. etc. etc. record. While I engaged the brother of this Greek American man running on the Republican ticket in a conversation, (playing dumb in these situations is always helpful to get to the heart of the matter,) I was told: "well, even if thru the Republicans, we will at least begin building our networks on the state level, any bit helps." The only thing the Republicans did not tell me or tell the Greek Americans of the area was that this non-Greek American woman running on the Democratic ticket, is married to a Greek American and as her mother said, "but her child is Greek." i.e., Greeks would have had the "in" and necessary connections anyway.From my perspective, this type of politicking on the part of Greek Americans is completely irresponsible and unethical. i.e., Greek Americans are being used by the two-Party system on the local level and they are willing usees (??? one who is being used). Ethnicity is being used to gain political advantage and further split the electorate in this city, and of course, race is used on the national level. The Greek Americans do have money and votes. The two parties here, at least in NYC, are trying really hard to get their money and votes. And these Greek Americans better start thinking responsibly and ethically of their roles as representatives of MY community bcz I'm just getting sick of them!!! Anna K. In a message dated 11/4/2004 10:01:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, cvrhasd@techunix.technion.ac.il writes: Dear All As is customary after every US election, I was wondering if someone on the other side of the Atlantic can say something on Americans of Greek extraction in the new Houses of Congress. _______________________________________________ List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l ----------------------------------------------------------------------------_______________________________________________ List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041106/a96c4c00/attachment.html From klkilpatrick at comcast.net Sat Nov 6 14:44:31 2004 From: klkilpatrick at comcast.net (Karen) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:40 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] RE: MGSA-L Digest, Vol 7, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: <20041106070044.C2F9D2A216@maillists.nac.uci.edu> Message-ID: <002501c4c452$2e358bc0$6400a8c0@sean> Could you send any information on Napoleon Zervas'autobiography -----Original Message----- From: mgsa-l-bounces@uci.edu [mailto:mgsa-l-bounces@uci.edu] On Behalf Of mgsa-l-request@uci.edu Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 2:01 AM To: mgsa-l@uci.edu Subject: MGSA-L Digest, Vol 7, Issue 6 Send MGSA-L mailing list submissions to mgsa-l@uci.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to mgsa-l-request@uci.edu You can reach the person managing the list at mgsa-l-owner@uci.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of MGSA-L digest..." --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 11/1/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.788 / Virus Database: 533 - Release Date: 11/1/2004 From LYNGOS at aol.com Sun Nov 7 12:57:38 2004 From: LYNGOS at aol.com (LYNGOS@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:40 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Re: Letter to the President. Message-ID: <86.1a9a588e.2ebfe642@aol.com> In a message dated 11/7/04 09:34:06 Pacific Standard Time, AKarpathak@aol.com writes: > Anyway, as to the referendum, the Albanians will vote for it, the > "Macedonians" will get "scr***", they are losing one way or the other over the next > two years--u say six months, I give it a little over a year, in the meantime > they lose important investment and in the next year a potentially important > ally in the form of a Balkan neighbor over a name... not smart politics on their > part, not smart. And Greeks are scr*** over an important ally in the > Balkans over a name... bad politics all in the name of "ethnic heritage, history, > pride" on both their parts, ignoring the realities of the current situation. > On this last point u will probably disagree on altho the rest we both agree > on. Dear Anna I am afraid things are not so. It is somehow very strange what is going on. The Bulgarians are happy, the Serbs kind of neutral (even if they have recognized F.Y.R.O.M. long ago), Todor Petrov and with him the entire "Makedonian Diaspora" being in Canada, Germany the USA, Australia, etc.etc., are extremely upset accusing the goverment of Skopje of fraud and attempts to falsify the will of the "Makedonian people", the "Makedonian Minority" party in Greece is completely numb, while the Greek political parties are asking the Hellenes,for the same thing they have been asking them for the last twenty years or so, namely *silence*. The Greek "capital" will keep running in F.Y.R.O.M., as to "ethnic heritage, history, pride" and so, the funny thing is that *everybody* knows the truth and now that the "knot arrived to the comb", I am not sure how many of those "Makedonians" from F.Y.R.O.M. are happy with such solution! You see.......as I wrote also to the "Eleftherotypia" newspaper with regards the death of Pavlos Melas, the Southern Greeks are responcible for the creation of these "Makedontski". Had the Southern Greeks accept the fact that the Hellenic Nation was renamed as Makedonian Nation, who they'll have been? With the decision by the Bush Administration, many others in that multi-ethnic state of F.Y.R.O.M.,( namely Albanians, Slavs, Turks, Egyptians, Roma, Serbs, Croats, etc.etc. ) will have to become known collectively by the name "Makedonians", and such fact, I don't believe is something that the TRUE Makedonians, being Vlacho-phones, Slavo-phones or Greko-phones, will like it very much. What turn of events! And all these because of ignorance in the State Department with regards the Balkans. They opened a can of worms, with another one (that of Kossovo) laying next to it. Lets see how they'll cover both on them. One thing for sure, the weak and meek of our lands are even more weak and meek now, as well as alone. Regards to all.............L. George Sofoklis Tsapanos Visalia, Ca. "Vlachs, the autochthonous of the Hellenic peninsula". -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041107/d30ceddb/attachment.html From LYNGOS at aol.com Sun Nov 7 11:58:29 2004 From: LYNGOS at aol.com (LYNGOS@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:40 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Re: Fwd: AHI Confirms No Change in US Policy Regarding FYROM Message-ID: Mr. Mangovski wrote: http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_columns_2398649_06/11/2004_49213 while Mr. Samuel Hassid http://www.kathimerini.gr/4dcgi/news/columns_312908KathiLev&xml/& aspKath/columns.asp?fdate=05/11/2004 What is going on in here? Mr. Mangovski should be exalting for the American decision to recognize F.Y.R.O.M. under its Constitutional name, name which by the way has been changed so far three times, and yet, he just brings in here an article by "Kathimerini" an article that after all has a different meaning from the original one in Greek as Mr. Hassid noted. Is that the best he can do , or something else is happening? The latests from F.Y.R.O.M. with regards the National Referendum, indicates that abstinence is the big winner, favoring in such a way the Albanian minority, that pretty soon will see its language becoming official in Skopje and Struga, let alone the other minor details imposed by the Axrida accord. However, we have reports of isolated cases of violence during the voting: http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=491501 and accusations by Todor Petrov the president of the "World Makedonian Congress" of an attempt to falsify the result of such referendum. Mr. Petrov is the person responcible for collecting over 180,000 signatures in order for the Goverment of Skopje to accept a referendum hoping to avoid the implementation of the Axrida accord, so dear in the hearts of the Americans and others. http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=491500 Add to it the fact that a certain "Makedonian minority" in Greece denounced Giorgi Donevski for asking the F.Y.R.O.M. citizenship, as well as separating itself from the "Makedonians from F.Y.R.O.M" by declaring: "that issues concerning the Macedonia minority in Greece must be dealt with and solved through dialogue between representatives of the Greek government and the minority based on the principles of the Conventions in force at a European level. The basis of such a dialogue can be the Framework Convention of the Council of Europe on the Rights of Minorities, which Greece signed (1997) but unfortunately has not yet ratified. This failing confirms Greece's democratic deficit on this matter." the above can be found at: http://www.florina.org/html/2004/2004_focus_allegation.html part of which is also the following: "The three organizations request that the Skopjian authorities support the holding of an international meeting whose aim is the recognition of these minorities along the lines of the Ochrida agreement, which guarantees the rights of the Albanians in FYROM. The Bulgarian news agency Focus reported that Ivan Gagavenov, from the organization OMO Ilinden (Bulgaria), Giorgi Donevski from Vinojito [sic] (Rainbow, Greece) and Kimet Fetahu, delegate for the Slavomacedonians in Albania, asked that the Skopjian authorities regard the Ochrida agreement as a 'standard of rights for the Macedonians in Bulgaria, Greece and Albania.' They asked, moreover, for the right to vote in FYROM elections and the ability to readily acquire FYROM citizenship. Greece and Bulgaria do not recognize the Macedonian minority." We hereby declare the following: The person, Giorgi Donevski, whom the article reports to be a Rainbow delegate, has no connection with the party. Furthermore, Rainbow has never asked for any intervention whatsoever from the government of the Republic of Macedonia regarding the rights of the Macedonian minority in Greece. Characteristically, we cite below an excerpt from the Rainbow Party Political Manifesto:............................ ..................................... "Rainbow has consistently and repeatedly maintained that issues concerning the Macedonia minority in Greece must be dealt with and solved through dialogue between representatives of the Greek government and the minority based on the principles of the Conventions in force at a European level. The basis of such a dialogue can be the Framework Convention of the Council of Europe on the Rights of Minorities, which Greece signed (1997) but unfortunately has not yet ratified. This failing confirms Greece's democratic deficit on this matter." Add to it Tsovolas' attack against the publishers of Greek newspapers, blaming them for the destruction of his party (DHKKI), as collaborators with them, and "co-managers" of the political power in Greece since early 1989, and we have all the igredients for an excellent Makedonian Salad with plenty of "tsuska piperka" (hot peppers). One has to wonder where from all those Hellenic flags flying high in Skopje the other night came from. One has to wonder about the silence of the press in Greece. One has to wonder about the political parties (except LAOS) asking the population not to participate in any manifestation of protests, against the decision of Mr. Bush' administration. One has to wonder how come the Turkish planes stopped flying over the Aegean violating the Hellenic air-space. One has to wonder about Mr. Mangovski not exalting for the recognition. One has to wonder about Todor Petrov's acusations. One has to wonder about the silence of Christodoulos after an initial public appearance and condemnation of the American action. One has to wonder about the silence of the Greek party "Ouranio Toxo" representing the so-called "Makedonian minority" within the Hellenic borders.Not one word so far in its internet page. One has to wonder about the actions of the big investments in F.Y.R.O.M. by the Hellenic companies (oil, communications, transportation, etc.etc.). One has to wonder about, how such multi-Ethnic society as F.Y.R.O.M. self-projecting itself, will adapt to the fact that the Americans recognized them as "Makedonians". One has to wonder if the "Vetos" proposed by Karamanlis in NATO, EU and possibly in the Security Counsil of the U.N. could have any effect. One has to wonder if a possible Cyprian Veto against Turkey on December the 17th could have any effect at all. One has to wonder if Europe can still has a voice. One has to wonder about the silent collaboration of progressive individuals and acceptance by them of the American solution. One has to wonder about many things, but above all, has to wonder of the "SILENCE OF THE LAMBS". Regards to all..................L. George Sofoklis Tsapanos Visalia, Ca. "Vlachs, the autochthonous of the Hellenic peninsula". -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041107/ce9602b3/attachment.html From dkatseto at bellatlantic.net Sun Nov 7 09:44:32 2004 From: dkatseto at bellatlantic.net (Christos D. Katsetos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:41 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Re: Letter to the President. References: <418BBD4D.30E6CC3E@bellatlantic.net> <1099831486.418e18be9d1c8@webmail.wmin.ac.uk> Message-ID: <418E5EFF.BEE6E288@bellatlantic.net> Further to Costandi Buhayer's insightful comments, I'd like to share the following thoughts. Unless we come to grips with our historical shortcomings, instead of placing them under the rag, we will continue losing ground, today in Macedonia, and tomorrow in Epirus and Thrace. Putting matters in a historical context, it becomes apparent that our revered statesman Eleftherios Venizelos played a controversial role regarding the fate of Monastir (Bitola), the 'brain center' of Hellenism in Pelagonia. Along these lines, one can reasonably surmise that Venizelos downplayed the important dimension of the Vlachs [Arm?ni/Aroumouni] in the context of the Greek identity of Macedonia and Epirus by conceding to the establishment of Roumanian schools and churches in the Pindus' region pursuant to the Bucharest Treaty in 1913. http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/2003-January/001458.html In the dawn of the 20th century most Greek Macedonians were either bilingual (Greek/ Rom?ika- and Slav-speaking), multilingual (Greek-, Vlach-, Albanian- and Slav-speaking), or in many instances, were solely Slav-speaking. The contemporary Hellenes should not be hesitant to acknowledge the historically indisputable fact that the Macedonian Greeks were the members of the Rum millet, the adherents of the Patriarchate of Constantinople (patriarchists) and were comprised of Graekoi/Romioi, Vlachs/Arm?ni, Arvanitovlachs, Sarakatchans, and subjects of presumed Bulgarian or Slav ancestry but with overt Greek orientation, speakers of a Slavonic-based idiom (Grecomans or 'Grkmani'). I contend that the latter were full-fledged Greeks in the context of our post-Byzantine ancestral line, viz. Rum millet, Romiosyni and Modern Hellenism. Historically, Greek identity in Ottoman Macedonia has been based entirely on consciousness and loyalty to the Mother Church (Ecumenical Patriarchate), disregarding linguistic and/or racial/tribal attributes. Simply put, phyletism is inherently antithetical to Romiosyni and Hellenism. I submit that if we continue to rely predominantly on arguments and counter arguments traceable to antiquity and thus, fail to emphasize the post-Byzantine continuity and inclusive character of the Greek dimension in Ottoman Macedonia, I am afraid that our historically tangible and legitimate case will be further weakened or even doomed. Along these lines, it is indeed puzzling that Hellenism has turned its back (throughout the protracted 'Skopje crisis') to the hitherto unspecified, but potentially sizable constituency of non-Greek speaking Graekoi/Hellenes, mostly Graeco-Vlachs in southern FYROM (Pelagonia). Looking back to the turn of the 20th century, the city of Monastir (Bitola/Vitola), as well as the townships of Krushevo, Megarovo/Trnovo, were areas in which Vlach Hellenism had once flourished. Historically, the Vlach merchants in Ottoman Rumelia (Balkans) but also in Vienna and Transylvania were the primary benefactors of Greek schools and churches in Macedonia. http://www.drkatsetos.com/greeks_brassov_transylvania.htm http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/2003-December/002774.html Notwithstanding the waves of immigration from Monastir, Trnovo (and so forth) to the New World, including the United States and Canada, one truly wonders what was the fate of Greeks who were left behind? Certainly, for many of us, this piece of the puzzle has not lapsed from consciousness. "Laloume ellhnisti, boulgaristi, blaxisti, albanisti, omws apantes eimaste Ellhnes kai den epitrepoume se kanenan na mas amfisbhtei touto." "We utter these words in Greek, Vlach, Bulgarian and Albanian, but we are all Greek and do not allow for anyone to dispute this fact." [Excerpt from the proclamation issued by the Greek Committee of Monastir to the Great Powers -- <>, Periodiko Ellhnismos fullo 9o, sel. 717] During the four-year Greek-Bulgarian conflict over Macedonia, in many areas the Greek forces were comprised predominantly, if not exclusively, of Slav-and Vlach-speaking militia. Because of their devotion to the Greek cause, the Bulgarians coined to these subjects the pejorative term 'Grekomans' ('Grkmani'), meaning, 'fanatical Greeks'. As British historian Douglas Dakin asserts, a crucial factor for the Greek success during the Macedonian Struggle rests with the fact that "the Greeks were fighting in an area in which the population was favorably disposed and even related to them. A population with a profound devotion to the Ecumenical Patriarchate and express Greek identity even though was not -for the most part- Greek-speaking." The national 'cleavages' and 'awakenings' of the 19th century Balkans lead to the fragmentation, but not the ultimate devastation of the Rum millet. Whereas it may be argued that the Kingdom of Greece (Hellas) was ostensibly, a 'national construct' of the 19th century, the core Greek consciousness and identity remained deeply rooted in the centuries' old tradition of Romiosyni and its precursor the Ottoman Rum millet. In this regard it is noteworthy that in contrast to the successful establishment of a Bulgar millet, the creation of a Vlach millet was largely abortive (and for a good reason) [1]. As to language, while it was undoubtedly one of the key factors in the molding of the national narratives in the emerging Balkan nations, in my view, language per se should not be construed as a categorical criterion of ethnic origin or 'differentiation', especially in the prenationalistic period [2]. In closing, I should like to draw attention to four main points: (a) The paradigms of Vlach- and Slav-speaking Greeks in Macedonia should not be viewed merely as examples of "hellenized" populations but rather as integral elements of the Greek dimension of Romiosyni. This position lends credence to Gounaris' hypothesis [3] regarding the existence of parties with national affiliations instead of ethnic groups within the ethnically-mixed Christians of Macedonia. (b) The pivotal contribution of the centuries' old Eastern Orthodox Rum millet in the shaping of Modern Greek identity in Macedonia [under the ecclesiastical and ethnarchic jurisdiction of the Patriarchate of Constantinople] should not be hastily dismissed or trivialized on historical grounds. (c) The distinct Slavonic idiom/dialect spoken in Greek Macedonia -but also in the historically Macedonian region of Pelagonia [southern FYROM]- is neither a signature of a purported 'clonal ethnic origin' of the 'Macedonci', nor does it necessarily certify the existence of an ethnic minority in Greek Macedonian soil. (d) The official recognition of a multiethnic (but not necessarily ethnically-mixed or harmoniously integrated) state (FYROM) comprising predominantly Slav Macedonci/Bulgarian and Albanian populations, as the 'Republic of Macedonia' is not tenable. It is also blatantly unfair to Greece not only on historical grounds but, also, by exposing Greek Macedonia to the aspirations of certain irredentist circles in Skopje and abroad. Last but not least, let us keep in mind that Macedonia is not a nation but a geographical region. In its present form, FYROM contains only a lesser portion of historic Macedonia unless, of course, if one were to consider the Aegean Macedonia as unredeemed territory. C.D.K. Footnotes: [1] According to Asteris Koukoudis, "Even after a millet-i-ullah (a Vlach -- not a Romanian) administrative division), was recognised in 1905, the Vlachs didn't hasten to make the most of the opportunity the Ottoman authorities had offered them, as the Bulgarians had exploited similar opportunities in the past. This was because most of the leaders of the local Vlach communities traditionally embraced the 'Hellenic idea' and identified their own progress with that of the still tiny Greece. Romanian propaganda failed to gain a foothold among the Vlachs of Eastern Macedonia, for instance, whether settled or nomadic, the reason being that the local communities all recognised the Vlachs as fundamentally modern Greeks." [Excerpts from Asterios Koukoudis's book titled _Studies on the Vlachs. The Olympos and Meglena Vlachs_. 2nd Vol. (Greek ed.), Zitros Publications: Thessaloniki, 2001] [2] "H glwssa esti gnwrisma ti lian epousiwdes kai sfaleron, ef'ou ouden dikaiwma e8emeliw8h" [Diafwtistikh Epitroph Oikoumenikou Patriarxeiou <> M. Gedewn, Eggrafa, o.p., sel. 64-65] [3] According to Basil Gounaris, "The existence of parties with national affiliations instead of ethnic groups within the Christians of Macedonia and the undeniable fact that around 1900 national loyalties as a rule were not to be taken for granted puts the following vital question: whether in the years preceding nationalism or under the thin layer of nationalism the various Christian linguistic groups (Greek-, Vlach-, Albanian- and Slav-speakers) corresponded to different ethnic groups. In 1903 Noel Brailsford, a British journalist, met in Ochrid (medieval Achris), near the Byzantine ruins, a group of Slav-speaking villageboys. When he asked them whether they knew who had built those ancient constructions they replied: "The free men, our ancestors." "Were they Serbs, Bulgarians, Greeks or Turks?" asked the journalist. The boys responded: "No they were not Turks, they were Christians." If the boys' answer represents an impartial or prenationalistic view, then it is most likely that some illiterate, non Greek-speaking peasant members of the Rum-i-millet in Macedonia (certainly not many amongst the fighting bandsmen), had treasured their previous cultural loyalties as late as the early twentieth century. In spite of all the ill digested national ideologies, they had been and some still were Romii (Romans) or Rum (terms which had a strong religious connotation), followers of the Ecumenical Patriarch, members of the Genos. This was a notion, which in many parts (some Macedonian regions included) had not yet developed into that of a modern national identity. They seemed to draw from anEastern-Orthodox Byzantine cultural tradition, which had amalgamated a variety of regional and social subcultures, myths andmemories, symbols and values. A tradition, which had always disregarded linguistic differences and had created a common mentality based on shared attitudes towards time, space, Muslim oppressors (i.e. the Turks), and 'civilized'Europeans..." [Excerpts from Basil C. Gounaris. Social cleavages and national 'awakening' in Ottoman Macedonia. East European Quarterly 1995; 29:409-426] C.Buhayer@westminster.ac.uk wrote: > How Athens missed the boat in 1992: > (I was working as a researcher on the Macedonian question on a production for > SBS and PBS ? it was never broadcast because there was ?no blood?). > After the June 1992 Lisbon European Summit that refused to recognise a country > with the name ?Macedonia?, Greece believed it could rest on its laurels. It was > the 'kalokeraki', and all diplomats, politicians and media were on holiday. > Yugoslavia could wait for September. > The Makedonci, on the other hand, went into overdrive. Though I strongly believe > the designation ?RoM? holds inherent dangers, it was probably their finest > hour. Makedonci students, aspiring journalists, diaspora volunteers and > politicians mobilised to forward their case, addressing academic conferences on > Yugoslavia and petitioning. By mid summer, the Yugoslav situation was becoming > untenable. An international conference for world leaders was called in London > for late August. > In between (date?), there was an emergency UN meeting in New York including the > Macedonian question. The Samaras team arrived. They sat at the table and were > immediately asked to present their case on Macedonia. Nothing had been > prepared. Samaras turned to Mr Kofos and asked him to put something together, > on the spot. The dear expert did his best to verbalise in 2 minutes on a scrap > of paper, the mental imbroglio of his political masters. > By late August, governments from around the world descended on central London, > as well as the world media and many activists (EU, US, Indian, Chinese, > Japanese, Russian, ex-Yugoslavs?) > The Greeks had been caught napping and (literally) irritated at having to > interrupt their holidays. Crucially, there was also a fringe summit on > Yugoslavia taking place down the road. The Greek officials (including all the > journalists) never set foot in it. Wrong choice, because it proved to contain > the future crop of upcoming journalists and authors who would make their name > over the Yugoslav wars; they invariably became critical of Greece. > At the conference, there was an insatiable hunger in the air to be informed > about the incomprehensible developments in Yugoslavia. And who was at hand? The > Makedonci. They were available to everyone with a strong message that was > repeated by their politicians, journalists and their tiny diaspora of > volunteers: 'we are the only peaceful, multicultural republic and we are being > punished by our southern neighbour who claims our borders'. On the other hand, > Greek journalists couldn?t explain much about the situation and seemed to > prefer Oxford Street window shopping to the press conferences. The Greek > officials were distant and seemingly competing amongst themselves for > ministerial favours, to answer any questions. The Makedonci all spoke from the > same lung and they were genuinely fearful for the future of their land. > By the end of the conference, for Greece, the situation had become almost > irreversible. Also, soon there were Cypriot officials irritated at Greece for > being concerned with the situation north of its borders, rather than working > for them at the EU. The following year, September 1993, the political choices > of Mr Papandreou and his minister made certain Greece?s name was dragged > through the media mud and Athens became the scapegoat for Europe?s shambolic > foreign policy. > By the late 1990s and 2000s, finance minister Papandoniou was talking about > ?Macedonia?, at international events, Greek FM Papandreou was attending > meetings where FYROM was officially mentioned as Republic of Macedonia, and > Elladic Greek international experts and students at the LSE and the US were > talking about Macedonia, meaning the republic. As for Greeks, they became the > most important investors in the Republic with their passport filled with RoM > stamps. Problem? What problem? Meanwhile, the Dimokratia ton Skopion, as we say > in Greek, is and will remain Greece?s most necessary neighbour. > Filika > CB > > Quoting "Christos D. Katsetos" : > > > George Savidis wrote: > > > > > > > 3) Skopje was plenty stupid and intransigent, continuing to try and play > > > between the Europeans and the US, and was helped in making a mess by > > certain > > > elements in Greece (his initials are a. Samaras). > > > > > > > > > > > > > The fact remains that Greek Foreign Minister Antonis Samaras rejected the > > proposal made by Portuguese Foreign Minister Pineiro regarding the > > -admittedly > > inappropriate- name "New Macedonia", as a 'compromise' state designation for > > Skopje. It is all-too-evident that then Prime Minister Constantine > > Mitsotakis > > was in fact keen to entertain the idea of a combined/ composite name. > > However, > > in an unprecedented turn of events he was effectively forced to acquiesce, > > albeit reluctantly, in the face of vehement opposition by the majority of > > his > > own party, ND. Most importantly though, Mitsotakis was confronted with the > > strong endorsement of Samaras's view [1] by the joint Council of Party > > Leaders > > presided by then President of the Hellenic Republic Constantine Karamanlis > > [...with the notable exception of Aleka Paparriga of the Greek Communist > > Party]. > > > > It is noteworthy that premier Mitsotakis's subsequent decision to fire > > Samaras > > and appoint himself as Foreign Minister -in a rather despotical fashion if I > > might add- is a clear indication as to Mitsotakis's modus operandi and > > fundamental opposition to the so-called "maximalist line," vis-?-vis "no > > Macedonia or its derivatives." [1] > > > > Doubtless, we should expect to hear a lot of blame about this "maximalist > > approach" in the days to come (predictably, in a scholarly fashion AND as > > always, on hindsight...) At the same time, one wonders what was the Greek > > strategy on the matter from 1995/1996 to date, under the 'tutelage' of the > > state-sponsored Greek foreign policy 'think tank' ELIAMEP? [2] > > > > C.D.K. > > > > [1] See "Greece's Macedonian Adventure: The Controversy over FYROM's > > Independence and Recognition" by Dr. Evangelos Kofos. > > http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Contributions/contr_Kofos19990705.html > > > > [2] http://www.eliamep.gr/4/7/text.asp?pub_link_id=242 > > http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Opinion/comm_20040314Veremis.html > > http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Opinion/comm_20010304Couloumbis.html > > > > George Savidis wrote: > > > > > That interpretation is already making the rounds on the far right and far > > > left blogs here in the states, and I am sure it has some currency in > > Greece, > > > but really it isn't what happened. > > > > > > 1) The fact is a major donor of bush sr personally stopped imminent > > > recognition by bush sr 13 year ago. Gligorov then attempted to force the > > US > > > hand by going through Europe despite a Bush sr. attempt at an early > > > compromise. > > > > > > 2) Greek American supporters of candidate Clinton successfully argued that > > > Clinton should take a position in acknowledging Greece's legitimate > > > concerns. Everyone knew at the time the goal was not to establish a > > > permanent US policy against but to give Greece more leverage in > > negotiating > > > a compromise. > > > > > > 3) Skopje was plenty stupid and intransigent, continuing to try and play > > > between the Europeans and the US, and was helped in making a mess by > > certain > > > elements in Greece (his initials are a. Samaras). > > > > > > 4) The Clinton administrating meanwhile came udder withering pressure, > > > especially from State, and externally from George Soros. It decided to > > > modify its position. > > > > > > 5) in the Greek American community everyone screamed bloody murder. some > > > people argued for a recognition with some conditions (like Australia's) > > but > > > most of the Greek American lobby decided to go for a photo op. > > > > > > 6) now additional pressures in Skopje, and issues of stablity were used by > > > state to successfully press its 13-year-old position home. > > > > > > I don't think it is Machiavellian, it is just a 13-year-old pressure from > > > state which no one Greek of influence stateside cared to resist any > > longer. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: mgsa-l-bounces@uci.edu [mailto:mgsa-l-bounces@uci.edu]On Behalf Of > > > AKarpathak@aol.com > > > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 8:01 PM > > > To: LYNGOS@aol.com; mgsa-l@uci.edu; > > > ".@maillists.nac.uci.edu."@maillists.nac.uci.edu > > > Subject: Re: [MGSA-L] Re: Letter to the President. > > > > > > Why are Greek Americans who voted for Bush surprised at this? It's pay > > back > > > time for the position/support, etc. in Iraq. The goody bags are now gonna > > > start rolling open for the good boys, too bad for those who took the > > > alternative position. It's elementary my dear Watson. > > > > > > Ah... Machiavelli........ if only everyone was good at your game!!! > > > > > > Anna K. > > > > > > In a message dated 11/4/2004 3:24:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > > LYNGOS@aol.com writes: > > > > > > >Dear Mr. President > > > >Today I am released from my loyalty to you Sir and to your party. > > > >In the millions of votes that you received in the elections of 2000 and > > > 2004, > > > >please count two votes less. > > > >For someone who recognizes the Slavs and Albanians of F.Y.R.O.M. as > > > >Macedonians and their country as Republic of Macedonia, you do not > > deserve > > > them. > > > >I wish I could take them back. > > > > > > > >So long Mr. President. > > > >George Sofoklis Tsapanos > > > >2027 E. Laura Ave. > > > >Visalia, Ca 93292 > > > >559-627-3346 > > > >Lyngos@aol.com. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l > > > > _______________________________________________ > List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041108/cbd7c923/attachment.html From gedeon at globalserve.net Sun Nov 7 15:54:37 2004 From: gedeon at globalserve.net (George Gedeon) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:41 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] greek americans in congress References: <29.6572ffdd.2ebd1980@aol.com> <418C254A.624C9CDE@bellatlantic.net> <004e01c4c47c$ac67f760$2812b7d1@globalserve.net> <418D972D.487BE2B2@bellatlantic.net> Message-ID: <001801c4c525$412c4a60$dca3fed8@globalserve.net> You are very welcome Mr. Katsetos. I've been wanting to do this for a long time. God Bless you once more. George ----- Original Message ----- From: Christos D. Katsetos To: George Gedeon Cc: cvrhasd@techunix.technion.ac.il ; mgsa-l@uci.edu ; AKarpathak@aol.com Sent: November 6, 2004 10:31 PM Subject: Re: [MGSA-L] greek americans in congress Dear Mr. Gedeon, I am not at all sure whether I deserve this praise, but would like to thank you for your kind and most generous words. I would like to use this opportunity to mention that I have inadvertently omitted to include the name of Rep. Shelley Berkley, member of the US House of Representatives (D-Nevada 1st District), among the current members of both houses who identify themselves as having Greek ancestry. http://www.house.gov/berkley/services/resources/presskit/biography.html I would like to thank my good friend, Dr. Samuel Hassid, in this regard and also, for bringing to my attention a relevant article published in today's issue of the Greek daily Eleftherotypia (which, obviously, did a much better job than I in answering his timely question). http://www.enet.gr/online/online_text?c=111&id=87235964 Congresswoman Berkley, who has a Greek Jewish ancestry and is a member of the Hellenic Caucus http://www.ahepa.org/news/releases/2004/1008_108th_HC.htm was one of the dignitaries who attended the ceremony held at the Jewish Holocaust Monument in Thessaloniki last year. http://www.usconsulate.gr/berkley.html http://www.house.gov/berkley/legis/otr/statements/fs_2004_0422a.html http://www.hri.org/news/greek/mpa/2003/03-05-29.mpa.html http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2003/May-31-Sat-2003/news/21435263.html Yours, Christos D. Katsetos George Gedeon wrote: I'd like to propose to this list that we all extend our special "thank yous" to Mr. Katsetos for his tireless work to keep up informed with his diverse sources and footnotes and reasonable and moderate love for anything Hellenic. His enthusiasm and polite manners are also appreciated by this anth-Ellina. When "hot" topics usually brought the worst out of some of us, including myself, Mr. Katsetos kept his "cool" and never stopped being a gentleman. Rather than becoming hysterical, cynical or personal, Mr. Katsetos brought forward fascinating academic material to help us through our arguments. God Bless you Mr. Katsetos and may you always have the strength and health to keep us informed. You are priceless. George GedeonToronto, Canada ----- Original Message ----- From: Christos D. Katsetos To: cvrhasd@techunix.technion.ac.il Cc: mgsa-l@uci.edu ; AKarpathak@aol.com Sent: November 5, 2004 8:13 PM Subject: Re: [MGSA-L] greek americans in congress To my knowledge, there are three incumbent members in both houses of Congress who identify themselves as having Greek ancestry. Two are US senators and one is a US representative (congressman). In the US Senate: -- Senator Paul S. Sarbanes, D-Maryland http://sarbanes.senate.gov/ [Historically, the powerhouse on Greek affairs in the US Senate.] -- Senator Olympia Snow, R-Maine http://snowe.senate.gov/ [First generation Greek American whose parents came from Mytilene (Lesbos) and Sparta. She attended St. Basil's Academy, which is a Greek Orthodox school in Garrison, New York and declares to be a member of the Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox Church in Lewiston, Maine.] In the US House of Representatives: -- Representative Mike Bilirakis, R-Florida 9th District http://www.house.gov/bilirakis/ [Co-founder of the so-called "Hellenic Caucus", which is a bi-partisan group in the House founded by Representatives Bilirakis and Carolyn Maloney (D-New York 14th District) in 1996. The Hellenic Caucus has 76 members in the 108th US Congress.] http://www.ahepa.org/news/releases/2004/1008_108th_HC.htm C.D.K. AKarpathak@aol.com wrote: Hi Samuel: I can't speak to this question, but I do have a comment to make re: Greek Americans' nominations in local, i.e., city and state politics.A few years ago, one Greek American, Thermos, a solid grassroots activist taking cross racial, cross ethnic approaches to local politics was defeated by another Greek American, Giannaris, brought into the Democratic Party with the aim of defeating that "other" Greek American. This was in Astoria. Fast forward a few years: Flushing/Bayside, NYC, the area where the upwardly mobile Greek immigrants and Greek Americans are moving to: a Greek American was running on the Republican ticket, nominated by the Republicans in the 11th hour to oust the Democrat, a woman, with a solid record of pro-working class, women's, children's issues, public education etc. etc. etc. record. While I engaged the brother of this Greek American man running on the Republican ticket in a conversation, (playing dumb in these situations is always helpful to get to the heart of the matter,) I was told: "well, even if thru the Republicans, we will at least begin building our networks on the state level, any bit helps." The only thing the Republicans did not tell me or tell the Greek Americans of the area was that this non-Greek American woman running on the Democratic ticket, is married to a Greek American and as her mother said, "but her child is Greek." i.e., Greeks would have had the "in" and necessary connections anyway.From my perspective, this type of politicking on the part of Greek Americans is completely irresponsible and unethical. i.e., Greek Americans are being used by the two-Party system on the local level and they are willing usees (??? one who is being used). Ethnicity is being used to gain political advantage and further split the electorate in this city, and of course, race is used on the national level. The Greek Americans do have money and votes. The two parties here, at least in NYC, are trying really hard to get their money and votes. And these Greek Americans better start thinking responsibly and ethically of their roles as representatives of MY community bcz I'm just getting sick of them!!! Anna K. In a message dated 11/4/2004 10:01:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, cvrhasd@techunix.technion.ac.il writes: Dear All As is customary after every US election, I was wondering if someone on the other side of the Atlantic can say something on Americans of Greek extraction in the new Houses of Congress. _______________________________________________ List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l ------------------------------------------------------------------------_______________________________________________ List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041107/1a185f18/attachment.html From mkliro at sfsu.edu Mon Nov 8 08:16:57 2004 From: mkliro at sfsu.edu (Martha Klironomos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:41 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] lectureship position in MGS: Spring 2005 Message-ID: Applications are being accepted for a one-semester only lectureship position in Modern Greek Studies for the Spring of 2005. We are seeking doctoral candidates or holders of a PhD who specialize in the teaching of Modern Greek language, literature and culture to teach undergraduate courses in these aforementioned areas and to conduct administration and organize cultural events related to the Modern Greek Studies Program at San Francisco State University. Degree requirements include ABD status or a PhD in Modern Greek Literature, Comparative Literature, Linguistics, ESL or Foreign-Language Pedagogy, Classics, Anthropology, and/or Cultural Studies. Please send a cv, cover letter and three letters of recommendation to the following: Martha Klironomos Associate Professor and Director Center for Modern Greek Studies San Francisco State University 1600 Holloway Avenue San Francisco, CA 94132 From gondicas at Princeton.EDU Mon Nov 8 08:40:48 2004 From: gondicas at Princeton.EDU (Dimitri Gondicas) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:41 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Princeton Hellenic Studies Workshop - November 12, 2004 Message-ID: <007001c4c5b1$b3bbf760$f7e17080@princeton.edu> Princeton University Program in Hellenic Studies Workshop ATHENS: A CASE OF SYMPTOMATIC UGLINESS The Backlash of Moderation Lina Stergiou stergiou@princeton.edu University of Thessaly; Visiting Fellow, Program in Hellenic Studies Respondent: Spyros Papapetros, School of Architecture Modern Athens is said to be an ugly, disfigured city. During its modern history a number of attempts were made to impose clear architectural or urban norms onto the city. These attempts were resisted as immoral acts of transgression into forbidden territory, and thus no spatial order or dominant style was ever adopted. The singularity and effectiveness of the architectural object was not to be tolerated. Moderation in size and style, besides being an outcome of economic necessity, was presented as a moral category, while formal transparency released the cityscape from all aesthetic verdicts. Was Athens's symptomatic ugliness the natural corollary of these developments? This talk will analyze the prevailing conception of Athenians that their city is ugly. It will elaborate on the reasons behind this attitude, from the perspective of moderation both as a social virtue and spatial quality, and will also address related issues of national and individual identity. _____ Lina Stergiou received her Diploma in Architecture from the National Technical University of Athens in 1990 and her Master of Architecture from the Pratt Institute, New York, in 1992, with an Alexander S. Onassis Foundation Scholarship and a Pratt Institute Assistantship. She is an adjunct assistant professor of Architectural Design at the University of Thessaly, and she practices design in Athens. Her work integrates cultural studies, urban speculations and references from the field of psychology. She has published in Architecture d' Aujourd' hui, Archis, Architext and Metalocus and exhibited her projects in Women architects in Europe (Paris), Athens-scape (RIBA gallery, London), the 3rd International Architectural Festival (Busan/Korea), and the 2nd and 3rd Biennale of Young Greek Architects. She is currently completing a book-length collection of her projects and articles on neutral and active space. Friday, November 12, 2004 2:30 p.m. Humanities Programs Building, Room 103 _____ The HELLENIC STUDIES WORKSHOP provides an opportunity for post-doctoral fellows, visiting fellows, and graduate students to present their work-in-progress or recently published research. The aim is to encourage exchange of ideas across disciplines among Classical scholars, Byzantinists, and Modern Greek Studies specialists. DATES: Most Fridays, 2:30-4:00 p.m., during the term. Dates, speakers and titles will be announced in advance via e-mail. PLACE: Room 103, Humanities Program Building, Princeton University For further information about current events in Hellenic Studies, please refer to the calendar posted on our website: http://www.princeton.edu/~hellenic/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041108/02edd2c4/attachment.html From dkatseto at bellatlantic.net Sun Nov 7 18:59:06 2004 From: dkatseto at bellatlantic.net (Christos D. Katsetos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:41 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] The challenge of reconciling Greek 'common sense' with galvanized aspirations in FYROM [was: Fwd: AHI Confirms No Change in US Policy Regarding FYROM] References: <191.31aaf441.2ebd8bee@aol.com> <00fc01c4c42e$26938bc0$6501a8c0@main> <025201c4c4e5$ac85c7e0$65804484@cv.technion.ac.il> Message-ID: <418EE0F9.C20B9FF8@bellatlantic.net> [Excerpted from the on-line English language edition of the Greek daily Kathimerini; for 'fair use' and educational purposes only. Copyright ? 2003 the International Herald Tribune] Kathimerini -- November 8, 2004 http://www.eKathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_columns_100022_08/11/2004_49254 A need for composure By Costas Iordanidis Following the agitation of the past few days, it would be advisable for Greece?s political world to compose itself anew in order to deal effectively with the crisis over the FYROM issue. The strenuous opposition of Costas Karamanlis's government on Thursday to Washington's hasty recognition of Greece's neighbor as the "Republic of Macedonia" helped reduce the sudden emotional charge, but was probably politically ineffective internationally. The United States actually waited for more than a decade, during which many countries recognized FYROM as Macedonia without triggering a strong Greek reaction, except against Turkey and Yugoslavia when still ruled by Slobodan Milosevic. Some Greek protest was necessary, so as not to nullify a struggle begun back in 1991. But Athens should have negotiated directly with Washington to get the latter to exert its influence on Skopje if it wanted to reach a mutually acceptable solution. Speculation, however, that the government intends to use its veto in the EU and NATO to impede FYROM's accession to both bodies is probably unfounded. A viable policy of splendid isolation demands the existence of an empire, the presence of a Cecil-like fourth Marquess of Salisbury, who -- for the sake of friendship -- sacrificed his personal comfort to serve Queen Victoria as prime minister. Greece is not Britain, we have never had political families like the Cecils, and the country needs common sense rather than splendid isolation. Athens believes it has solid EU support to counterbalance the US action, but it cannot count on that for long. The enlarged EU is not a vehicle for confronting the US, and European leaders have a poor track record in managing Balkan issues. The Europeans, in fact, first put pressure on the US to lead the war on Yugoslavia. The Greek government must curb its resentment and seek a mutually agreeable, if compromise, solution on the FYROM name issue by March. The solution will certainly contain the word "Macedonia," which will irritate the more hardline conservative elements in northern Greece. Slavs in FYROM do have irredentist tendencies and often appropriate the historical and cultural heritage of the Greeks of Macedonia. At the end of the day, if Greece is not able to deny illegitimate assertions and rein in Slav irredentism in FYROM, then one wonders what reason Greece has to exist as a state entity. ***************************************************************************** My note: The Makedonci political leadership, activists and intellectuals, all those ardent and energetic patrons of 'Macedonism' ought to be congratulated for their steadfast endeavor and effective longterm strategy -- O EPIMENWN NIKA!. The recent US recognition of FYROM by its constitutional name "Republic of Macedonia" has, no doubt, boosted morale in Skopje and for good reason. This opens a whole new range of possibilities for Greece's neighbor to the north, which will -undoubtedly- be unveiled before long. In the meantime, Greece's challenge at hand is how to reconcile 'common sense' with the renewed impetus of dormant irredentist aspirations in FYROM. Irredentism nowadays is reinventing itself in creative and sophisticated ways and is unlikely to be expressed or carried out in a conventional fashion. In fact the real question is what is in store for the "Aegean" Macedonia in the next 13 years? C.D.K. Samuel Hassid wrote: > It is unfortunate that this newspaper - one of the most accurate in > Greece with a very old tradition - has the bad habit of publishing > articles which sound completely different when translated into > english. Last time I came accross this is when they published the > interview of Mikis Thodorakis with Haaretz ... I suggest that those > who reed greek read the - much larger - article of teh same Thanos > Oikonomopoulos to obtain a rather different impression than the one of > the english > edition. http://www.kathimerini.gr/4dcgi/news/columns_312908KathiLev&xml/&aspKath/columns.asp?fdate=05/11/2004 > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041108/1777a803/attachment.html From john.pp.nordin at verizon.net Mon Nov 8 08:52:15 2004 From: john.pp.nordin at verizon.net (John P Nordin) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:41 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Fwd: AHI Confirms No Change in US Policy Regarding FYROM In-Reply-To: <00fc01c4c42e$26938bc0$6501a8c0@main> Message-ID: This article is full of good common sense. The point is not what the country calls itself, but the entire texture of its relationship to Greece. Greece should be a regional power in the Balkans, the acknowledged leader of the area and the nation other nations come to for assistance with the area. That there are other nations with a heritage that connects them to Hellenism (e.g. Cyprus) only provides an opportunity for Greece to expand its influence in the world. John Nordin www.jpnordin.com www.theplaka.com -----Original Message----- From: mgsa-l-bounces@uci.edu [mailto:mgsa-l-bounces@uci.edu]On Behalf Of Slavko Mangovski Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 10:27 AM To: mgsa-l@uci.edu Subject: Re: [MGSA-L] Fwd: AHI Confirms No Change in US Policy Regarding FYROM This from today's Kathimerini: An inevitable blow? By T. Economopoulos The timing of the USA?s move to recognize the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM) as ?the Republic of Macedonia? ? and the indelicate way in which it was made known ? may have been a surprise to Greece but, if we want to be honest with ourselves, this development had been on the cards for at least the last 10 years. We are all fully aware, from reading foreign newspapers and listening to foreign television channels, that the overwhelming majority refer to our neighboring country by its constitutional name ?Macedonia?; that?s just the way it is. The country may be referred to as FYROM in official documents, and Greece may complain every time a foreign official refers to it as ?Macedonia,? but there can be no doubt about the fact that this is how it is recognized and referred to all over the world in everyday language. Since the ?bombshell? hit us on Thursday, the more clear-headed among us cannot but regret the shortsighted approach to the matter over the past 13 years by successive governments ? all of whom postponed a final decision so as not to lose political face ? and the fact that the whole affair has blown up into a major domestic problem for no essential reason. Just think that all those who had argued that Greece had no reason to make an enemy of its poor neighbor, that it could turn it into a staunch ally with a few high-minded gestures, had been scorned... http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_columns_2398649_06/11/2004_492 13 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041108/b65d9ac5/attachment.html From rolandmo at pacbell.net Mon Nov 8 09:00:42 2004 From: rolandmo at pacbell.net (Roland Moore) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:41 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Princeton talk on Athens: Stergiou on Athens Nov 12, 2004 Message-ID: <20041108170042.87380.qmail@web51005.mail.yahoo.com> >From Dimitri Gondicas: Princeton University  Program in Hellenic Studies Workshop   ATHENS: A CASE OF SYMPTOMATIC UGLINESS The Backlash of Moderation Lina Stergiou stergiou@princeton.edu University of Thessaly; Visiting Fellow, Program in Hellenic Studies Respondent:  Spyros Papapetros, School of Architecture Modern Athens is said to be an ugly, disfigured city. During its modern history a number of attempts were made to impose clear architectural or urban norms onto the city.  These attempts were resisted as immoral acts of transgression into forbidden territory, and thus no spatial order or dominant style was ever adopted.  The singularity and effectiveness of the architectural object was not to be tolerated.  Moderation in size and style, besides being an outcome of economic necessity, was presented as a moral category, while formal transparency released the cityscape from all aesthetic verdicts. Was Athens’s symptomatic ugliness the natural corollary of these developments?  This talk will analyze the prevailing conception of Athenians that their city is ugly.  It will elaborate on the reasons behind this attitude, from the perspective of moderation both as a social virtue and spatial quality, and will also address related issues of national and individual identity. Lina Stergiou received her Diploma in Architecture from the National Technical University of Athens in 1990 and her Master of Architecture from the Pratt Institute, New York, in 1992, with an Alexander S. Onassis Foundation Scholarship and a Pratt Institute Assistantship. She is an adjunct assistant professor of Architectural Design at the University of Thessaly, and she practices design in Athens. Her work integrates cultural studies, urban speculations and references from the field of psychology.  She has published in Architecture d’ Aujourd’ hui, Archis, Architext and Metalocus and exhibited her projects in Women architects in Europe (Paris), Athens-scape (RIBA gallery, London), the 3rd International Architectural Festival (Busan/Korea), and the 2nd and 3rd Biennale of Young Greek Architects. She is currently completing a book-length collection of her projects and articles on neutral and active space.   Friday, November 12, 2004 2:30 p.m. Humanities Programs Building, Room 103 The HELLENIC STUDIES WORKSHOP provides an opportunity for post-doctoral fellows, visiting fellows, and graduate students to present their work-in-progress or recently published research.  The aim is to encourage exchange of ideas across disciplines among Classical scholars, Byzantinists, and Modern Greek Studies specialists. DATES:  Most Fridays, 2:30-4:00 p.m., during the term.  Dates, speakers and titles will be announced in advance via e-mail. PLACE: Room 103, Humanities Program Building, Princeton University             For further information about current events in Hellenic Studies, please refer to the calendar posted on our website:  http://www.princeton.edu/~hellenic/ From megateftonas at arcor.de Mon Nov 8 13:28:31 2004 From: megateftonas at arcor.de (megateftonas@arcor.de) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:41 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Makedoniko kai Antiamerikanismos Message-ID: <2389AC7C-31CD-11D9-90A1-000A95694AB4@arcor.de> Makedoniko kai Antiamerikanismos STAYROS PETROLEKAS Etsi loipon! ?Astoxh? kai ?lan8asmenh? gia to synolo sxedon ths Ellhnikhs politikhs takshs, h prox8esinh apofash ths Amerikhs na anagnwrisei to FYROM ws Makedonia. An pragmatika to pisteyoyn ayto oi Ellhnes politikoi, zoyn se allo planhth. Giati h apofash ayth - ka8oloy sybtwmatika h prwth ths deyterhs 8hteias Boys-einai ena mikro diamanti epikairhs, polydiastaths shmatodosias. Pros de thn skopianh pleyra, poy se liges meres dieksagei krisimo eswteriko dhmopshfisma, diamhnyei me ton pio adapano tropo (afoy tosoi thn exoyn hdh anagnwrisei, eite de jure eite de facto ws Makedonia) pws exoyn ef?ekshs thn plhrh sybarastash ths monadikhs yperdynamhs. Endeiksh eygnwmosynhs, metaksy allwn, gia thn symvolikh antapokrish ths xwras ayths (me aghma 30 andrwn) sto kalesma ths Amerikhs gia yposthriksh sto polemo sto Irak. Pros de thn ?Eyrwph?, poy akrivws thn epomenh kai synedriazei to Symvoylio Koryfhs (de facto gia aksiologhsh toy eklogikoy apotelesmatos HPA), kai ypodexetai ton Irakino prw8ypoyrgo, diamhnyei me emmeso tropo, mesw ths epivraveyshs toy lillipoytenioy ?Makedonikoy? symmaxoy, pws h politikh Boys sthn eyrytero polemo kata ths tromokratias, paramenei atalanteyth kai estiazmenh. Xwris na ksexna toys filoys ths. Kai xwris ekeinh thn h8ikologikh talanteysh kai sxetikothta, poy xarakthrise thn proseggish Kerry kai odhghse sth htta toy. Etsi, gia na kseka8arizei to axly gia to ti prosdoka h Amerikh apo toy stenoys ths etairoys sthn deyterh ayth 8hteia .Kai oxi mono to ti prosdoka h Eyrwph... Telos, pros thn Ellada, me kentriko politiko gnwrisma ton diarkes kai prosvlhtiko antiamerikanismo ths, diamhnyei, me sxetika anwdyno tropo, (afoy hdh thn ?Makedonia? thn exoyn anagnwrisei ws tetoia dekades alla krath) pws o antiamerikanismos aytos exei timhma, oti oi yvreis kai prakseis exoyn kai epiptwseis. Ayto to teleytaio kaloyntai na katalavoyn kala oi shmerinoi kyvernwntes ths ND, opws kai oi epidoksoi anamorfwtes toy PASOK. Giati h idia h Amerikanikh apofash, apo monh ths, mikrh (kai isws proswrinh) mono shmasia exei. To kyros ths xwras einai ayto poy etrw8ei. Kai eplhgei symvolika, wste na syneidhtopoih8ei oti kyros exei kai h Amerikh, kai an to ?ftyneis? plhrwneis, arga h grhgora, to timhma. Etsi, gia na katalavainomaste....twra sthn arxh ths neas 8hteias. ?Astoxh? loipon kai ?lan8asmenh? h apofash; Gia ksanaskef8eite to. 8/11/2004 source: www.libertynet.gr -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2574 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041108/c6b381d9/attachment.bin From acadbury at efn.org Mon Nov 8 18:25:30 2004 From: acadbury at efn.org (acadbury) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:42 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Herodotus Message-ID: <001d01c4c603$7c4f7480$bb3f1c40@oemcomputer> A friend sent this message: he had written it on the flyleaf of a book. Anyone know where it comes from and whether it is spelled correctly? Herodotus' 4 stages of ? history: -Karos: having enough and satisfied with it -Hubris: violence, assault, grabbing for more -Ate: delusion - mad act, crossing boundary (see Croesus crossing the river Hales) -Nemesis: destruction If you have enough and are satisfied with it, maybe the gods will let you keep it. "Count no one happy until he is dead." -Solon (false attrib) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041108/8c9fc514/attachment.html From LYNGOS at aol.com Mon Nov 8 15:13:01 2004 From: LYNGOS at aol.com (LYNGOS@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:42 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Makedoniko kai Antiamerikanismos Message-ID: <154.438d4dd4.2ec1577d@aol.com> In a message dated 11/8/04 13:51:00 Pacific Standard Time, megateftonas@arcor.de writes: > ?Astoxh? loipon kai ?lan8asmenh? h apofash; Gia ksanaskef8eite to. > > H apofash, swsth h lanthasmenh, eystoxh h astoxh, tha eprepe na koinopoihthei stous pshfoforous PRIN twn eklogwn kai oxi meta. Kathe politikos o opoios exei elaxiston ixnos aytosevasmoy, kai ypeythhnothtas pros tous pshfoforous tha eixe praxei toioutotropws. To asteio einai, oti h Amerikh *den* kerdise apolytws tipota, kai sto apwteron an oxi eggys mellon, h apotyxia ayth ths exwterikhs ths politikhs tha ginei fanerh. Regards to all...............L. George Sofoklis Tsapanos Visalia, Ca. "Vlachs, the autochthonous of the Hellenic peninsula". -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041108/4321bb26/attachment.html From xalkinos at cytanet.com.cy Mon Nov 8 14:23:35 2004 From: xalkinos at cytanet.com.cy (Lampros F. Kallenos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:42 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Fwd: AHI Confirms No Change in US Policy Regarding FYROM References: Message-ID: <007501c4c5e1$9758a8e0$50026f0a@LocalHost> > there are other nations with a heritage that connects > them to Hellenism (e.g. Cyprus) We are aware, of course, that in English the word ''nation'' is used to describe the population of a state, usually being translated in Greek as "ethnos". Untill a few years ago, one could also translate "ethnos" back in English and get "nation". But today, translating "ethnos" will get you ...either ethnic or nation!! Anyway, beyond this matter, I find Mr. Nordin's statement not correct, but also, I'm afraid, unacceptable. It turns out that we Cypriots are not "connected to Hellenism". We are not Greek-speaking either, and we are not Greek-like of a sort. We are Greeks. Comparing Skopia and Cyprus is unfortunate and inappropriate. Language is a strange kind of a river, and expressions sailing on it are most usually forced to carry not so much their intended meaning, but rather a meaning according to the rules and the banks of this river. ________________________ Lampros F. Kallenos Idalion, Lefkosia Kypros -- From john.pp.nordin at verizon.net Mon Nov 8 21:27:12 2004 From: john.pp.nordin at verizon.net (John P Nordin) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:42 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Fwd: AHI Confirms No Change in US Policy Regarding FYROM In-Reply-To: <007501c4c5e1$9758a8e0$50026f0a@LocalHost> Message-ID: As usual in these debates, we have lots of declarations ("unacceptable") but little in the way of an argument. The issue of nation / ethnos has nothing to do with my point about Greece acquiring allies with common interests as opposed to enlarging conflicts and divisions. Comparing Skopia and Cyprus is very instructive - in the former case many on this list have tried to expand the division and make distinctions, in the latter, to insist on common ground. So, Cyprus has more and deeper ties to Greece than the people living in the political entity of Macedonia do - I guess that is your point. Well and good. But we are trying to decide on Greece's foreign policy, not whether we can invite people in Macedonia to join our family reunion. Being obsessed about if they are entitled to the name is counterproductive to Greek interests and blocks Greece assuming its proper influence in the Balkan region. John Nordin www.jpnordin.com www.theplaka.com -----Original Message----- From: mgsa-l-bounces@uci.edu [mailto:mgsa-l-bounces@uci.edu]On Behalf Of Lampros F. Kallenos Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 2:24 PM To: MGSA-L LIST Subject: Re: [MGSA-L] Fwd: AHI Confirms No Change in US Policy Regarding FYROM > there are other nations with a heritage that connects > them to Hellenism (e.g. Cyprus) We are aware, of course, that in English the word ''nation'' is used to describe the population of a state, usually being translated in Greek as "ethnos". Untill a few years ago, one could also translate "ethnos" back in English and get "nation". But today, translating "ethnos" will get you ...either ethnic or nation!! Anyway, beyond this matter, I find Mr. Nordin's statement not correct, but also, I'm afraid, unacceptable. It turns out that we Cypriots are not "connected to Hellenism". We are not Greek-speaking either, and we are not Greek-like of a sort. We are Greeks. Comparing Skopia and Cyprus is unfortunate and inappropriate. Language is a strange kind of a river, and expressions sailing on it are most usually forced to carry not so much their intended meaning, but rather a meaning according to the rules and the banks of this river. ________________________ Lampros F. Kallenos Idalion, Lefkosia Kypros -- _______________________________________________ List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l From dkatseto at bellatlantic.net Mon Nov 8 08:43:02 2004 From: dkatseto at bellatlantic.net (Christos D. Katsetos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:42 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Fwd: AHI Confirms No Change in US Policy Regarding FYROM References: <007501c4c5e1$9758a8e0$50026f0a@LocalHost> Message-ID: <418FA215.922E86D2@bellatlantic.net> "Lampros F. Kallenos" wrote: > Comparing Skopia and Cyprus is unfortunate and inappropriate. > > However unfortunate and inappropriate this may be, it is by no means implausible. Just to put things in perspective and avoid any 'definitional misconceptions', this is how the Heritage Foundation, a leading and highly influential conservative 'think tank' here in the US views the problem of Cyprus and its solution. An emergency press room conference titled "After the Train Wreck: The Ramifications of the Cyprus Referendum" was held on May 5, 2004 (i.e., shortly after the Cyprus referenda) at the Heritage Foundation in Washington D.C. The speakers included The Honorable Mehmet Ali Talat, officially announced at the conference as the "Prime Minister of the Turkish Cypriot Republic of Cyprus", Soner Cagaptay, Coordinator of the Turkish Research Program, The Washington Institute, John C. Hulsman, Ph.D. Research Fellow in European Affairs, The Heritage Foundation, and John Sitilides, Executive Director, of the Western Policy Center. Those who have installed Real Player in their computers may view the event from the URL below (it is highly recommended). http://www.heritage.org/Press/Events/ev050504c.cfm Also, see the analysis "Why a Pro-Western Turkey is a U.S. Policy Priority" by John C. Hulsman, Ph.D., and Brett D. Schaefer http://www.heritage.org/Research/Europe/em845.cfm http://www.heritage.org/About/Staff/JohnHulsman.cfm C.D.K. "Lampros F. Kallenos" wrote: > > there are other nations with a heritage that connects > > them to Hellenism (e.g. Cyprus) > > We are aware, of course, that in English the word ''nation'' is > used to describe the population of a state, usually being > translated in Greek as "ethnos". Untill a few years ago, one > could also translate "ethnos" back in English and get "nation". > But today, translating "ethnos" will get you ...either ethnic or > nation!! > > Anyway, beyond this matter, I find Mr. Nordin's statement not > correct, but also, I'm afraid, unacceptable. > > It turns out that we Cypriots are not "connected to Hellenism". > We are not Greek-speaking either, and we are not Greek-like of a > sort. We are Greeks. > > Comparing Skopia and Cyprus is unfortunate and inappropriate. > > Language is a strange kind of a river, and expressions sailing on > it are most usually forced to carry not so much their intended > meaning, but rather a meaning according to the rules and the > banks of this river. > > ________________________ > Lampros F. Kallenos > Idalion, Lefkosia > Kypros > -- > > _______________________________________________ > List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041109/4a93025d/attachment.html From AKarpathak at aol.com Mon Nov 8 21:10:38 2004 From: AKarpathak at aol.com (AKarpathak@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:42 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Fwd: H-Gender-MidEast: CONF/CFP: Navigating Globalization (Norway, August 4-6... Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: martina rieker Subject: H-Gender-MidEast: CONF/CFP: Navigating Globalization (Norway, August 4-6. 2005) Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 16:26:38 +0200 Size: 3035 Url: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041109/79872eeb/attachment.mht From dirkzwager at pandora.be Tue Nov 9 00:16:26 2004 From: dirkzwager at pandora.be (Arie Dirkzwager) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:42 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Re: Herodotus References: <001d01c4c603$7c4f7480$bb3f1c40@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <001901c4c634$69338680$444c5351@telenet.be> I do not know from where the text comes. But I know that the quotation "Count no one happy until he is dead." cannot be seen absolutely as a false attribution to Solon. Herodotus attributes him nearly the same words in book I chapter 32: But mark this: until he is dead, keep the word 'happy' in reserve. till then, he is not happy, but only lucky. (Translation Aubrey de S?lincourt). In Greek: PRIN D' AN TELEITHSHi, EPISCEIN MHDE KALEIN KW OLBION, ALL' EUTUCEA. I cannot imagine what is meant with karos. The word does not have the meaning "having enough and satisfied with it", nor something connected with it. Nemesis is not "destruction", but "anger, wrath", things that can be the cause of destruction. It is likewise with ate: it means "delusion" and can lead to mad acts, e.g. Croesus crossing the river Hales So it all sounds to me as written by someone who heard a lecture and was not very lucky in his notes about it. The word "see" in the line about ate is typical. Arie Dr. A. Dirkzwager Hoeselt, Belgium e-mail dirkzwager@pandora.be ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: acadbury Aan: mgsa ; aegeanet Verzonden: dinsdag 9 november 2004 3:25 Onderwerp: Herodotus A friend sent this message: he had written it on the flyleaf of a book. Anyone know where it comes from and whether it is spelled correctly? Herodotus' 4 stages of ? history: -Karos: having enough and satisfied with it -Hubris: violence, assault, grabbing for more -Ate: delusion - mad act, crossing boundary (see Croesus crossing the river Hales) -Nemesis: destruction If you have enough and are satisfied with it, maybe the gods will let you keep it. "Count no one happy until he is dead." -Solon (false attrib) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041109/c2dd1f15/attachment.html From LYNGOS at aol.com Tue Nov 9 05:07:36 2004 From: LYNGOS at aol.com (LYNGOS@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:42 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Fwd: AHI Confirms No Change in US Policy Regarding FYROM Message-ID: <105.547a765a.2ec21b18@aol.com> In a message dated 11/8/04 22:31:21 Pacific Standard Time, john.pp.nordin@verizon.net writes: > Being > obsessed about if they are entitled to the name is counterproductive to > Greek interests and blocks Greece assuming its proper influence in the > Balkan region. > Matter of opinion. F.Y.R.O.M. is not simply after just a name. With the name comes a "Makedonian" ethnicity, a "Makedonian" language (still under construction), a "Makedonian" Church, (schismatic so far), and most important, are coming territorial claims with maps depicting F.Y.R.O.M. all the way to river Strymon in the East, Phneios to the South, and the lakes Prespa to the West, (maps that were presented just few months ago in the NATO business meeting that took place in Sofia Bulgaria , while Mr. Mihaloliakos assistant secretary of defence as well as the representatives of the Western Policy Center were sitting side by side, a Western Policy Center that for years was and it is still using the anti-Hellenic name Republic of Makedonia instead of that F.Y.R.O.M. for our neighboor country), comes teaching in their schools a falsified history with regards Makedonia and Alexander the Great, teaching a different Second World War to accomodate the collaboration of many F.Y.R.O.Mians with Tito and his Communists and so on. Is not simply a manner of name, too many things come with it, the name is just "lo specchietto per le allodole" (statement of accounts good only to the larks). Time for Hellas to ask F.Y.R.O.M. about the Hellenic minority in Pelagonia, time to ask the EU to press F.Y.R.O.M. to recognize and respect such minority,and its human, religious, ethnic and linguistic rights, time to ask for our properties to be returned, being in Tyrnovo, Megarovo, Monastiri, Axrida, Stromnitsa, and elsewhere. If Athens has been sleeping on those laurel leaves from the past, we demand action and we demand it immediately. Regards to all..............L. George Sofoklis Tsapanos Vislaia, Ca. "Vlachs, the autochthonous of the Hellenic peninsula". -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041109/9ec256e9/attachment.html From dkatseto at bellatlantic.net Mon Nov 8 18:51:22 2004 From: dkatseto at bellatlantic.net (Christos D. Katsetos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:43 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Fwd: AHI Confirms No Change in US Policy Regarding FYROM References: <007501c4c5e1$9758a8e0$50026f0a@LocalHost> <418FA215.922E86D2@bellatlantic.net> Message-ID: <419030AA.B9563DC5@bellatlantic.net> Some thoughtful and insightful remarks by (former) Archbishop Spyridon http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=491980 Also, of possible interest: http://www.heritage.org/Research/Europe/bg1601.cfm C.D.K. "Christos D. Katsetos" wrote: > "Lampros F. Kallenos" wrote: > > >> Comparing Skopia and Cyprus is unfortunate and inappropriate. >> >> > However unfortunate and inappropriate this may be, it is by no means > implausible. Just to put things in perspective and avoid any > 'definitional misconceptions', this is how the Heritage Foundation, a > leading and highly influential conservative 'think tank' here in the > US views the problem of Cyprus and its solution. > > An emergency press room conference titled "After the Train Wreck: The > Ramifications of the Cyprus Referendum" was held on May 5, 2004 (i.e., > shortly after the Cyprus referenda) at the Heritage Foundation in > Washington D.C. The speakers included The Honorable Mehmet Ali Talat, > officially announced at the conference as the "Prime Minister of the > Turkish Cypriot Republic of Cyprus", Soner Cagaptay, Coordinator of > the Turkish Research Program, The Washington Institute, John C. > Hulsman, Ph.D. Research Fellow in European Affairs, The Heritage > Foundation, and John Sitilides, Executive Director, of the Western > Policy Center. > > Those who have installed Real Player in their computers may view the > event from the URL below (it is highly recommended). > http://www.heritage.org/Press/Events/ev050504c.cfm > > Also, see the analysis "Why a Pro-Western Turkey is a U.S. Policy > Priority" by John C. Hulsman, Ph.D., and Brett D. Schaefer > http://www.heritage.org/Research/Europe/em845.cfm > http://www.heritage.org/About/Staff/JohnHulsman.cfm > > > C.D.K. > > > "Lampros F. Kallenos" wrote: > >> > there are other nations with a heritage that connects >> > them to Hellenism (e.g. Cyprus) >> >> We are aware, of course, that in English the word ''nation'' is >> used to describe the population of a state, usually being >> translated in Greek as "ethnos". Untill a few years ago, one >> could also translate "ethnos" back in English and get "nation". >> But today, translating "ethnos" will get you ...either ethnic or >> nation!! >> >> Anyway, beyond this matter, I find Mr. Nordin's statement not >> correct, but also, I'm afraid, unacceptable. >> >> It turns out that we Cypriots are not "connected to Hellenism". >> We are not Greek-speaking either, and we are not Greek-like of a >> sort. We are Greeks. >> >> Comparing Skopia and Cyprus is unfortunate and inappropriate. >> >> Language is a strange kind of a river, and expressions sailing on >> it are most usually forced to carry not so much their intended >> meaning, but rather a meaning according to the rules and the >> banks of this river. >> >> ________________________ >> Lampros F. Kallenos >> Idalion, Lefkosia >> Kypros >> -- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041109/11ceaf1d/attachment.html From AKarpathak at aol.com Tue Nov 9 09:11:52 2004 From: AKarpathak at aol.com (AKarpathak@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:43 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Dukakis on Bush, lol Message-ID: Dukakis' comments on Bush's morning after the election decision: _Click here: ? ??I?? ???????S G?? ?? ???????? ???G?O??S? ?O? S????O? ??? ??S ???_ (http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=491700) Anna K. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041109/1ac3f75c/attachment.html From baloglou at Oswego.EDU Tue Nov 9 09:41:52 2004 From: baloglou at Oswego.EDU (George Baloglou) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:43 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Re: Herodotus In-Reply-To: <001901c4c634$69338680$444c5351@telenet.be> References: <001d01c4c603$7c4f7480$bb3f1c40@oemcomputer> <001901c4c634$69338680$444c5351@telenet.be> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Nov 2004, Arie Dirkzwager wrote: > I do not know from where the text comes. > But I know that the quotation "Count no one happy until he is dead." cann= ot be seen absolutely as a false attribution to Solon. Herodotus attributes= him nearly the same words in book I chapter 32: > But mark this: until he is dead, keep the word 'happy' in reserve. till t= hen, he is not happy, but only lucky. (Translation Aubrey de S=E9lincourt). > In Greek: PRIN D' AN TELEITHSHi, EPISCEIN MHDE KALEIN KW OLBION, ALL' EUT= UCEA. Thanks for this one! I was familiar with MHDENA PRO TOU TELOUS MAKARIZE, a rather familiar proverb in contemporary Greece with roughly the same meaning; and I am discovering right now (thanks to a TLG search) that the change had been made by 1200 AD: a very similar expression appears in Eustratius' commentary to Aristotle's Ethica Nicomachea. > I cannot imagine what is meant with karos. > The word does not have the meaning "having enough and satisfied with it", I have seen it in medical texts as a 'synonym' of LETHARGOS, so it could mean a mental state of complete non-alertness, whatever; I may return to this one in case others do not shed more light into it. =09=09=09=09=09=09=09=09GB From john.pp.nordin at verizon.net Tue Nov 9 10:18:20 2004 From: john.pp.nordin at verizon.net (John P Nordin) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:43 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Fwd: AHI Confirms No Change in US Policy Regarding FYROM In-Reply-To: <105.547a765a.2ec21b18@aol.com> Message-ID: So those things which are offensive or an abuse of human rights (property not being returned, making territorial claims (didn't they renounce that already?) teaching hatred of Greece, etc.) - by all means document them, publicize them and protest them. But they can call their country "Ralph" and still do those things. As for trying to stop them from having a unique language or even a unique church - you have no right to stop that. To point out the problems with it, yes, but you can't stop a sovereign nation from taking on policies to start its own language. Even if they keep FYROM as the name, they can still teach rubbish in their schools. In this increasingly globalized world, I think it far more likely that kids in FYROM will learn English than an invented language. More likely to listen to Greek radio stations and learn the lyrics to love songs in Greek than a language with no literature or history behind it. By making the public face of this issue be the name of the country, Greece is not advancing its objectives. John Nordin www.jpnordin.com www.theplaka.com -----Original Message----- From: mgsa-l-bounces@uci.edu [mailto:mgsa-l-bounces@uci.edu]On Behalf Of LYNGOS@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 5:08 AM To: jpn@jpnordin.com; mgsa-l@uci.edu Subject: Re: [MGSA-L] Fwd: AHI Confirms No Change in US Policy Regarding FYROM In a message dated 11/8/04 22:31:21 Pacific Standard Time, john.pp.nordin@verizon.net writes: Being obsessed about if they are entitled to the name is counterproductive to Greek interests and blocks Greece assuming its proper influence in the Balkan region. Matter of opinion. F.Y.R.O.M. is not simply after just a name. With the name comes a "Makedonian" ethnicity, a "Makedonian" language (still under construction), a "Makedonian" Church, (schismatic so far), and most important, are coming territorial claims with maps depicting F.Y.R.O.M. all the way to river Strymon in the East, Phneios to the South, and the lakes Prespa to the West, (maps that were presented just few months ago in the NATO business meeting that took place in Sofia Bulgaria , while Mr. Mihaloliakos assistant secretary of defence as well as the representatives of the Western Policy Center were sitting side by side, a Western Policy Center that for years was and it is still using the anti-Hellenic name Republic of Makedonia instead of that F.Y.R.O.M. for our neighboor country), comes teaching in their schools a falsified history with regards Makedonia and Alexander the Great, teaching a different Second World War to accomodate the collaboration of many F.Y.R.O.Mians with Tito and his Communists and so on. Is not simply a manner of name, too many things come with it, the name is just "lo specchietto per le allodole" (statement of accounts good only to the larks). Time for Hellas to ask F.Y.R.O.M. about the Hellenic minority in Pelagonia, time to ask the EU to press F.Y.R.O.M. to recognize and respect such minority,and its human, religious, ethnic and linguistic rights, time to ask for our properties to be returned, being in Tyrnovo, Megarovo, Monastiri, Axrida, Stromnitsa, and elsewhere. If Athens has been sleeping on those laurel leaves from the past, we demand action and we demand it immediately. Regards to all..............L. George Sofoklis Tsapanos Vislaia, Ca. "Vlachs, the autochthonous of the Hellenic peninsula". -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041109/9816b9d8/attachment.html From JUNESAM at aol.com Tue Nov 9 20:07:01 2004 From: JUNESAM at aol.com (JUNESAM@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:43 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Kazantzakis Message-ID: <75.37dde0aa.2ec2ede5@aol.com> [27] Int'l symposium in Copenhagen dedicated to Greek author Nikos Kazantzakis COPENHAGEN 9/11/2004 (ANA) An international symposium dedicated to Greek author Nikos Kazantzakis was held at the Carlsberg Academy here on Saturday entitled "Tribute to Kazantzakis". The symposium was organized by the Danish Institute in Athens, under the auspices of the Embassy of Greece in Copenhagen and with the support of Greece's foreign and culture ministries and of the clubs "Friends of Kazantzakis" and of the Greek-Danish cultural club "Melina". The symposium included speeches by Greek and foreign academics, authors and journalists relating to the work of the Greek author, the projection of scenes from films based on his work, the reciting of excerpts from his novels and poems, as well as a concert with compositions of Manos Hatzidakis, Yiannis Constantinidis and Manolis Kalomiris which were performed by soprano Myrto Georgiadou and pianist Mari Ikeda. From LYNGOS at aol.com Tue Nov 9 20:01:15 2004 From: LYNGOS at aol.com (LYNGOS@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:43 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Re: Herodotus Message-ID: In a message dated 11/9/04 10:46:21 Pacific Standard Time, baloglou@Oswego.EDU writes: > > I cannot imagine what is meant with karos. > > The word does not have the meaning "having enough and satisfied with it", > > I have seen it in medical texts as a 'synonym' of LETHARGOS, so it could > mean a mental state of complete non-alertness, whatever; I may return to > this one in case others do not shed more light into it. > Karos: noun (masculine), maybe related to -Kar-=pseira-koris=louse,aphis,lice. Also: deep sleep, lethargy,drowsiness,hybernating. Derivatives: Karos (o'), Karow (o') verb. Dictionary of the Ancient Hellenic language, by Kostas Kioupkiolis. Regards to all............L. George Sofoklis Tsapanos Visalia, Ca. "Vlachs, the autochthonous of the Hellenic peninsula". -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041109/354361cf/attachment.html From LYNGOS at aol.com Tue Nov 9 20:18:19 2004 From: LYNGOS at aol.com (LYNGOS@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:43 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Fwd: AHI Confirms No Change in US Policy Regarding FYROM Message-ID: In a message dated 11/9/04 10:46:54 Pacific Standard Time, john.pp.nordin@verizon.net writes: > > So those things which are offensive or an abuse of human rights (property > not being returned, making territorial claims (didn?t they renounce that > already?) teaching hatred of Greece, etc.) ? by all means document them, publicize > them and protest them. But they can call their country ?Ralph? and still do > those things. > > As for trying to stop them from having a unique language or even a unique > church ? you have no right to stop that. To point out the problems with it, > yes, but you can?t stop a sovereign nation from taking on policies to start its > own language. Even if they keep FYROM as the name, they can still teach > rubbish in their schools. In this increasingly globalized world, I think it far > more likely that kids in FYROM will learn English than an invented language. > More likely to listen to Greek radio stations and learn the lyrics to love > songs in Greek than a language with no literature or history behind it. > > By making the public face of this issue be the name of the country, Greece > is not advancing its objectives. > > They can *not* do the offensive things if they wish to enter the EU, and they can do all the other things without usurping somebody else's name and history. For a country containing only a 17-20% of Makedonia, for a language called as such only in 1944, for an Ethnicity invented in 1923, for a Church created in the 60s, not allowing execution of other rites, the opposite, oppressing and suppressing the other Orthodox Churches, I don't see whats the point of insisting in something that wasn't theirs and equally I can not see any advantages for Greece, being named as Makedonia or Pluto. Can we name and make *Ethnic* Makedonians out of Slavs and Albanians? The biggest question is, the denial of their own name and history, and as a result if they are going to do it, we don't want them and we don't need them. Do other countries wish to take care of them? Good for them, enough is enough. Regards to all............L. George Sofoklis Tsapanos Visalia, Ca. "Vlachs, the autochthonous of the Hellenic peninsula". -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041109/81d464ee/attachment.html From mcpantel at uci.edu Wed Nov 10 06:51:17 2004 From: mcpantel at uci.edu (Maria C. PANTELIA) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:43 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] MGSA Meetings in Chicago Message-ID: For scholars who are working on aspects of the Athens Olympics 2004 and its relation with Greek national identity: If you are interested in submitting an abstract to take part in a session on this topic at the upcoming MGSA Meetings in Chicago, please send a title and abstract to me and I will pass it along to the organizer, who has several participants already but would like to add one more. Maria Pantelia UC Irvine From acadbury at efn.org Wed Nov 10 09:41:24 2004 From: acadbury at efn.org (acadbury) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:43 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] more on Herodotus and a contemporary application Message-ID: <000e01c4c74c$88cd14c0$963f1c40@oemcomputer> Complicated, but folow along. This shows that the classics indeed have legs. Maybe if SOMEONE had done his Greek homework, we wouldn't be in such a mess. Brian refers to Herodotus' four stages of history: koros, hubris, ate, nemesis. His class notes indicate: (>> -Koros: having enough and satisfied with it >> -Hubris: violence, assault, grabbing for more >> -Ate: delusion - mad act, crossing boundary (see Croesus crossing the > river >> Hales) >> -Nemesis: destruction >> >> If you have enough and are satisfied with it, maybe the gods will let you >> keep it. >> >> "Count no one happy until he is dead." -Solon (false attrib) >> > > From: "Marinos Pourgouris" > To: "acadbury" > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 9:11 PM > Subject: RE: [MGSA-L] Herodotus > > >> The correct wording is "koros-hubris-ate-nemesis". This sequence is > commonly used to describe the eternally repeated stages of history but most >> importantly the development of plot in classical tragedy. The source for >> this is not only Herodotus (though he applied the sequence to history). >> Personally, I have found the sequence very useful when I apply it to > tragedy >> (-it's a useful way to discuss ancient Greek morality as perceived through >> drama) >> >> Hesiod has the following interesting description in his "Theogony": >> >> "...Nemesis (Indignation) to afflict mortal men, and after her, Deceit and >> Friendship and hateful Age and hard-hearted Strife. But abhorred Strife > bore >> painful Toil and Forgetfulness and Famine and tearful Sorrows, Fightings >> also, Battles, Murders, Manslaughters, Quarrels, Lying Words, Disputes, >> Lawlessness and Ruin, all of one nature, and Oath who most troubles men > upon >> earth when anyone willfully swears a false oath." (223-230) >> >> The following entry is from the Perseus Project on Ate: >> >> (At?). According to Homer, the daughter of Zeus; according to Hesiod, of >> Eris (or Strife). She personifies infatuation, the infatuation being >> generally held to imply guilt as its cause and evil as its consequence. At >> first she dwelt on Olympus; but after she had entrapped Zeus himself into >> his rash oath on the occasion of the birth of Heracles (q.v.), he hurled > her >> down to earth. Here she pursues her mission of evil, walking lightly over >> men's heads, but never touching the ground. Behind her go the Litai >> (Prayers), the lame, wrinkled, squinting daughters of Zeus. The Litai, if >> called upon, heal the hurts inflicted by At?; but they bring fresh evil > upon >> the stubborn. In later times At? is transformed into an avenger of >> unrighteousness, like Dik?, the Erinyes, and Nemesis. >> >> other definitions (see: >> > http://www.facstaff.bucknell.edu/gretaham/Teaching/reference/greekterms.htm) >> -koros: satiety, excess, and the consequences thereto (insolence) >> -hubris: pride, arrogance, insolence, violent transgression, outrage, > gross >> insult, assault (including sexual assault, i.e. rape). In tragedy, the >> initial result of koros. >> -nemesis: indignation or anger at injustice; vengence or jealousy at >> undeserved good fortune (esp. of the gods); reapportioning/redistribution >> (of disproportionate goods/fortune; the goddess of retribution >> -ate: folly, blindness, delusion esp. as sent by the gods; ruin (i.e., the >> results of the folly), destruction; personified as Goddess of mischief and >> destruction. Cf. (in Iliad ) Agamemnon; Phoinix's allegory in book 9. In >> tragedy, the final consequence of koros >> >> Best, >> >> M.P. >> >> >> NOW TO THE APPLICATION: >From another friend wise in the ways of the ancients: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Koros > hubris > ate > nemesis Well, if we're thinking of the Republicans who have a powerful grip on all three branches of government right now, the only thing lacking is nemesis... and with any luck, it will come swiftly. If we think of George W. Bush as personifying this process, it's very clear. Koros or self-satisfied smug satiety was where he started, born on third base, as someone put it. Hubris or the insulting infliction of force or violence simply to get pleasure from the shame of others has been his lifetime habit, especially manifest in those pleas for clemency he refused, and of course his eager and joyous attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq. Ate or mental aberration and infatuation causing irrational behavior which leads to disaster, well, it sums him up perfectly. Nemesis or the retribution for hubris... well, may Heaven hasten the day! Meantime, if we think of the history of our own nation as a whole, well, we may very well be experiencing the swiftest rise and fall of an empire ever. We certainly have asked for it... Tom -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041110/eaeba610/attachment.html From caugheybp at comcast.net Wed Nov 10 10:50:47 2004 From: caugheybp at comcast.net (Brian Caughey) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:43 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Fw: more on Herodotus and a contemporary application Message-ID: <000601c4c756$3262ff00$4efea8c0@caugheybp> Will Nemesis arrive by FedEx, as Chalmers Johnson suggests? ----- Original Message ----- From: acadbury To: Brian Caughey ; Andy Traisman ; Doe Tabor ; Alison Cadbury ; Polly Bowman ; Fred Collier ; Fred and Sandra Austin ; mgsa ; Lauren Rusk Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 9:41 AM Subject: more on Herodotus and a contemporary application Complicated, but folow along. This shows that the classics indeed have legs. Maybe if SOMEONE had done his Greek homework, we wouldn't be in such a mess. Brian refers to Herodotus' four stages of history: koros, hubris, ate, nemesis. His class notes indicate: (>> -Koros: having enough and satisfied with it >> -Hubris: violence, assault, grabbing for more >> -Ate: delusion - mad act, crossing boundary (see Croesus crossing the > river >> Hales) >> -Nemesis: destruction >> >> If you have enough and are satisfied with it, maybe the gods will let you >> keep it. >> >> "Count no one happy until he is dead." -Solon (false attrib) >> > > From: "Marinos Pourgouris" > To: "acadbury" > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 9:11 PM > Subject: RE: [MGSA-L] Herodotus > > >> The correct wording is "koros-hubris-ate-nemesis". This sequence is > commonly used to describe the eternally repeated stages of history but most >> importantly the development of plot in classical tragedy. The source for >> this is not only Herodotus (though he applied the sequence to history). >> Personally, I have found the sequence very useful when I apply it to > tragedy >> (-it's a useful way to discuss ancient Greek morality as perceived through >> drama) >> >> Hesiod has the following interesting description in his "Theogony": >> >> "...Nemesis (Indignation) to afflict mortal men, and after her, Deceit and >> Friendship and hateful Age and hard-hearted Strife. But abhorred Strife > bore >> painful Toil and Forgetfulness and Famine and tearful Sorrows, Fightings >> also, Battles, Murders, Manslaughters, Quarrels, Lying Words, Disputes, >> Lawlessness and Ruin, all of one nature, and Oath who most troubles men > upon >> earth when anyone willfully swears a false oath." (223-230) >> >> The following entry is from the Perseus Project on Ate: >> >> (At?). According to Homer, the daughter of Zeus; according to Hesiod, of >> Eris (or Strife). She personifies infatuation, the infatuation being >> generally held to imply guilt as its cause and evil as its consequence. At >> first she dwelt on Olympus; but after she had entrapped Zeus himself into >> his rash oath on the occasion of the birth of Heracles (q.v.), he hurled > her >> down to earth. Here she pursues her mission of evil, walking lightly over >> men's heads, but never touching the ground. Behind her go the Litai >> (Prayers), the lame, wrinkled, squinting daughters of Zeus. The Litai, if >> called upon, heal the hurts inflicted by At?; but they bring fresh evil > upon >> the stubborn. In later times At? is transformed into an avenger of >> unrighteousness, like Dik?, the Erinyes, and Nemesis. >> >> other definitions (see: >> > http://www.facstaff.bucknell.edu/gretaham/Teaching/reference/greekterms.htm) >> -koros: satiety, excess, and the consequences thereto (insolence) >> -hubris: pride, arrogance, insolence, violent transgression, outrage, > gross >> insult, assault (including sexual assault, i.e. rape). In tragedy, the >> initial result of koros. >> -nemesis: indignation or anger at injustice; vengence or jealousy at >> undeserved good fortune (esp. of the gods); reapportioning/redistribution >> (of disproportionate goods/fortune; the goddess of retribution >> -ate: folly, blindness, delusion esp. as sent by the gods; ruin (i.e., the >> results of the folly), destruction; personified as Goddess of mischief and >> destruction. Cf. (in Iliad ) Agamemnon; Phoinix's allegory in book 9. In >> tragedy, the final consequence of koros >> >> Best, >> >> M.P. >> >> >> NOW TO THE APPLICATION: >From another friend wise in the ways of the ancients: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Koros > hubris > ate > nemesis Well, if we're thinking of the Republicans who have a powerful grip on all three branches of government right now, the only thing lacking is nemesis... and with any luck, it will come swiftly. If we think of George W. Bush as personifying this process, it's very clear. Koros or self-satisfied smug satiety was where he started, born on third base, as someone put it. Hubris or the insulting infliction of force or violence simply to get pleasure from the shame of others has been his lifetime habit, especially manifest in those pleas for clemency he refused, and of course his eager and joyous attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq. Ate or mental aberration and infatuation causing irrational behavior which leads to disaster, well, it sums him up perfectly. Nemesis or the retribution for hubris... well, may Heaven hasten the day! Meantime, if we think of the history of our own nation as a whole, well, we may very well be experiencing the swiftest rise and fall of an empire ever. We certainly have asked for it... Tom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041110/a05b8d5e/attachment.html From dkatseto at bellatlantic.net Wed Nov 10 00:17:32 2004 From: dkatseto at bellatlantic.net (Christos D. Katsetos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:44 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] The Greek Orphanage of Buyukada (Prinkipo): An update Message-ID: <4191CE9C.C3F8E724@bellatlantic.net> I regret to report the recent decision of the Turkish courts to reject the appeal of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople concerning its property rights over the historic Greek Orphanage in the island of B?y?kada (Prinkipo) in the Sea of Marmara. http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=492220 After this latest court decision, the dilapidated property [click on the photo to enlarge image -- http://www.ahsap.com/menu.php/en/5/5 ] will remain under the administrative jurisdiction of the Turkish government agency, known as Vakiflar Genel Mudurlugu (VGM; General Directorate for Foundations), which regulates and monitors the activities of non-Muslim religious groups, that is, "outside spiritual matters." Technically, VGM or the "Vakif", as it is commonly known and referred to, has absolute authority over the running of churches, monasteries, and synagogues. In the case of the Greek Patriarchate, the Vakif has legal jurisdiction of all the charitable properties related to (and essentially owned by) the Patriarchate [PATRIARCIKA KATASTHMATA]. It ought to be reiterated in this regard that under Turkish law the Patriarch is not a "legal person" and the Patriarchate is not a "legal entity." [See below -- footnote 1 for a more detailed account on this matter, including the latest International Religious Freedom Report on Turkey, issued by the United States Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor, released on September 15, 2004]. The Greek (Rum/R?m?ic) orphanage in B?y?kada (Prinkipo) the largest of the Princes' Islands in the Sea of Marmara, is an imposing 8-story Levantine building (the largest timber frame in the world). Built originally as a hotel by the renowned French architect Alexandre Vallaury in the 1890s, it was subsequently bought [on May 21, 1903] and donated to the Patriarchate by H?l?ne Zafiropoulo-Zarifi, wife of Georges [Iannis] Zarifi, Banker to the Ottoman Sultan Abdul Hamid ll, with the stipulation to be used as the Greek Orphans's Dormitory. Her father together with her husband were co-founders of Zafiropoulo & Zarifi (Z&Z). The Zarifi family was a great benefactor to the Greek communities in Constantinople and Philippoupolis. http://www.christopherlong.co.uk/zarifigen/fh01_001.html#P4931F1956 It is estimated that in the 1920s the number of children accommodated in the orphanage was well in excess of one thousand. In 1942 the Heybeliada (Halki) Girls' Orphanage was closed and the girls were relocated to Prinkipo. In the 1960s the number of children sheltered in the Prinkipo Orphanage was reduced to approximately 200. Sadly, since the 1970s and due to an intractable dispute between the Patriarchate and the State Foundations council (Vakif), the building is presently derelict, in a deplorable state and in imminent danger of arson and further destruction. http://www.ahsap.com/menu.php/en/5/5 This is indeed most regrettable considering that the Greek Orphanage of B?y?kada would have provided shelter to hundreds of homeless "street children" and teenagers in Istanbul, regardless of religion, ethnic orgin, underlying illness, or disability. In the meantime, on the occasion of the commemoration of the 66th anniversary of the death of Mustafa Kemal Atat?rk, the Turkish (liberal) daily H?rriyet (which has been "keeping an eye" on the Patriarchate since the 1950s [2]) makes reference to "concrete symbols of religious tolerance" in present-day T?rkiye [3]. One wonders why EU candidate Turkey pursues such an intransigent approach on such an innocuous matter just over a month before the December 17th EU summit? OR is the historic Greek Orphanage of Prinkipo likely to be put, as well, on the bargaining table along with the Theological Seminary of Halki anti antallagmatwn ? C.D.K. Footnotes: [1] The Greek Patriarchate of Constantinople does not currently enjoy the status of a "legal entity" nor is it recognized as "Ecumenical" by the Turkish authorities. http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/2004-September/004075.html http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/2004-November/004299.html [2] See editorial by Speros Vryonis Jr. titled "Eye on History: September 6, 1955 Krystallnacht in Constantinople" http://www.greekamerica.net/pastissues/7-1/eyeonhistory.wu Also, see a news article titled "Close watch on the Patriarch" (published H?rriyet earlier this year); in: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/2004-March/003000.html [3] According to the November 9, 2004 issue of H?rriyet "Fener Greek Patriarch Bartolomeos on Monday gave a fast-breaking dinner for residents of Istanbul's almshouse. Speaking at the dinner, which 700 people attended, Bartolomeos said that churches, mosques and synagogues coexisting side by side in Istanbul were a concrete symbol of Turkey?s religious tolerance." [Excerpted verbatim from the Turkish Press.com; for 'fair use' and educationalpurposes only. Copyright ? 1997-2004 Anatolia.com Inc.] http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?ID=33353 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041110/39f77729/attachment.html From OVarvitsiotes at aol.com Wed Nov 10 12:34:27 2004 From: OVarvitsiotes at aol.com (OVarvitsiotes@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:44 2005 Subject: Fwd: [MGSA-L] more on Herodotus Message-ID: <8e.19bbb32f.2ec3d553@aol.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: OVarvitsiotes@aol.com Subject: Re: [MGSA-L] more on Herodotus Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:33:09 EST Size: 1551 Url: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041110/cc665b5a/attachment.mht From dkatseto at bellatlantic.net Wed Nov 10 04:05:51 2004 From: dkatseto at bellatlantic.net (Christos D. Katsetos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:44 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Trip of Pope John Paul II to Phanar canceled Message-ID: <4192041E.AFBBFE6@bellatlantic.net> In one of my previous posts to MGSA-L I had speculated that the prospect of an official visit of Pope John Paul II to Phanar* will be a critical test as to the contested "Ecumenical" status of Patriarch Vartholomaios by Turkey ahead of the December 17th EU summit in Brussels. http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/2004-July/003764.html It turns out that the much anticipated historic visit of Pope John Paul II to the Ecumenical Patriarchate, which was originally scheduled for November 30th of this year (St. Andrew's Day), has been canceled. http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?id=33&cat=apofasis Instead, the Pope has pledged to return to Phanar the holy remains of Saints John Chrysostom and Gregory the Theologian, which was accepted as a gesture of good will. http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?id=21&cat=anakinothenta C.D.K. Footnote/related links [*] Announcement of the visit of Pope John Paul II to the Patriarchate of Constantinople, scheduled for November 30th, 2004: http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2004/07/02/patriarch_pope/index.html http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_100016_03/07/2004_44641 http://www.sabah.com.tr/2004/07/03/gun106.html http://www.milliyet.com.tr/2004/07/03/siyaset/siy07.html http://www.radikal.com.tr/veriler/2004/07/03/haber_121073.php http://www.stargazete.com.tr/index.asp?haberID=54554 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041110/06430f33/attachment.html From andronikos at froggy.com.au Thu Nov 11 06:44:48 2004 From: andronikos at froggy.com.au (Pavlos Andronikos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:44 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Veto the only choice? Message-ID: <41937ADC.DEB55FA7@froggy.com.au> An interesting article from Makarios Drousiotis ------------------- ????, ? ???? ???????! http://www.makarios.ws/cgibin/hweb?-A=549&-V=index ?????? 10 ???????? 2004 ??? ??? 1? ????? 2004?? ??????, ?? ?????? ????? ??? ?.?., ???? ??? ?????????? ??? ??????? ?? ??? ?? ???????? 24 ????? ????. ? ??? ?????????? ????? ??? ?? ????? ?????????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? 1? ?????, ???? ?? ????????? ??? ??? ????? ???? ?? ???????????. ??? ?????? ?? ?????? ??? ???????? ???? ?? ????????? ??????????? ????, ??? ??? ???? ????????? ????? ?? ???????? ???? ???????, ???? ? ?????? ??? ???????? ???? ??? ?????? ??????? ??? ?? ???? ??? ?????????? ???????. ? ???? ??? ??? ????????????? ?? ??????????? ? ???????? ??????????, ???? 17 ??????????, ???? ? ?. ??????????????? ?????? ?? ?????????? ???? ????? ? ??????? ?? ?????? ?? ????? ?????????? ??????? ?????????? ????????????????. ? ?????? ???? ????? ???????? ??????? ???????????? ??? ?? ?????? ? ??????? ?? ????? ??? ??????????: 1.????????? ????????????. 2.????????? ???????. 3.???????? ??? ???? ??? ?????????. 4.?????????? ??? ????????? ???????????. ?? ????????? ???????????? ???? ?????????, ? ?. ???????????? ???? ??? ? ????????? ?????????? ?? ???????????? ?? ???????? ??? ?????????? ??? ??????. ??? ?????? ? ?. ??????????????? ????????? ???? ??????? ??? ?? ??????????? ??????? ?? ??????????? ??? ???????? ??? ??? ???????, ???? ???????? ??? ???????? ??????? ??? ??? ????? ??? ??????? ?? ?????????? ??? ?.?. ? ?????? ??? ?. ???????????? ?? ??????????? ??? ???? ??? ???????? ? ?????? ???? ??? ??????, ??????????? ?????????? ??? ????????? ???? ?? ??????????. ? ??????? ???????????????????? ?????? ??? ????????, ? ??????, ??? ?? ????? ?????? ????????? ??? ????? ????? ??? ??? ???????? ??? ??????? ??????? ??????, ????????? ?? ???? ?????????? 24 ??? ?????????????? ????? ??? ???????? ??? ????????, ????? ??? ???????? ???? ?.?. ?? ??????????? ??? ?????????? ??? ?? ????????. ????, ? ?.?. ?????? ??? ?? ???????????? ???? ?? ?????? ??? ??????????? ??? ????????? ???????????. ??? ??? ????????? ???????, ? ?. ??????????????????? ?? ???????????? ??? ????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ?? ??????????. ???? ????????????, ??? ?? ????????? ??? ????? ?????? ????????? ?????? ???? ??????? ?????????, ??????? ?? ??? ????? "???? ?????? ??? ???????????????? ?? ?????????? ? ??????? ?? ??????????? ??? ???????? ??????????, ?????????????? ??????????? ??? ???????????? ???????? ??? ??? ?? ????". ??? ????? ????????? ?.??????????????? ???????? ?????? ??? ??????????, ??????????? ??????, ??? ?????? ??? ????????????? ?????? ?? ?????? ?? ??????????? ??? ??? ?????. ??? ? ??????? ????? ?????????? ????? ?? ??????????? ??? ???????? ??????????, ???????? ??? ? ?.?. ?? ???? ???????? ??? ?? ?? ??????????. ???? ??? ? ???????? ???????? ?? ???????? ??? ???????, ???? ?? ??? ?. ???????????, ??????? ????????, ???????? ??? ? ????? ???????? ?? ??? ???????? ?????????? ??? ??????????? ??? ?????????? ???. ?? ???????? ????; ??? ? ??????? ?? ??????? ???????????????? ??? ?? ???????? ???? ?.?., ????? ?? ??????????? ??? ??? ?? ????? ????. ???? ?? ?? ????? ??????????? ??? K.?. ?? ????????? ?????????? ?? ??????????? ??? ??? "???????? ?????????? ??????? ??????". ?????? ?? ?????? ??? ?????? ???? ????????? ??? ?.?. ??? ?? ??????????? ??? ????? ???? ?????! ??????????????, ???? ? ?.??????????????? ?????????? ??????? ???? ?????????? ??? ???? ?? ???, ???? ?? ????? ???????? ??? ??????????. ??? ? ?. ???????????? ????????????? ??? ?. ??????????? ?? ?????? ??????? ?????? ??? ?.?. ???? ?? ?????? ??????????. ? ?. ????????????, ? ?????? ???????? ?????? ??????? ?????????????, ??? ?????? ?? ????????? ????????? ???? ????????? ????????. ??? ? ??????? ??? ??????????? ???? ??????????? ???, ???? ?? ????????????? ?? ?????? ???????? ????? ?????? ??? ?.?. ??? ?? ??????? ?? ???????? ??? ????, ???? ? ?????????? ???? ?? ?????????? ?? ????? ?? ???????????. ?.?. ??? ???????? ??? ??????? ??????????: "????, ?????? ? ????? ?????? ?? ???????? ??? ???????? ??? ?? ???????? ??? ??????;", ??????????? ?? ?????? ??? ??????? ???????, ???? ?? ????????? ??? ???????? ????????? ??? ???? ?? ????????? ????????: "? ?????? ??? ??????. ? ??????, ????, ??????"! ???????? ?????????? ??????? 09/11/2004 From c.papoulias at virgin.net Thu Nov 11 06:23:49 2004 From: c.papoulias at virgin.net (Constantina Papoulias) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:44 2005 Subject: Fwd: [MGSA-L] The Stone Age of Arch. Christodoulos Message-ID: <4E6AC20D-33ED-11D9-BEB2-003065B04CA8@virgin.net> Well, I can safely say that I know little about the Greek church (in addition to what my growing up in it has shown me that is!) However, from a cultural politics perspective, it seems to me that Anna Karpathak's question contained its own answer. the flagging up of homosexuality is precisely the move par excellence in a world wide resurgence of right wing christian militancy. While the Greek church's expressed homophobia may well go back a few years, I am wondering whether it is about to be picked up in a big way by church followers: my evidence is anecdotal, but from conversations with gay Athenians there appears to be a renewed atmosphere of hostility around gay rights and gay visibility at the moment in Greece, compared with say the early nineties. It is not a surprise that in view of the accelerated globalisation, federalisation (if i may use this word) and increased immigrant flow in countries like Greece, the old bugbears will be invested with new significance as symbols of the incoming dissolution o f morals, loss o f national identity, forced secularisation etc. In this sense, I doubt that reproductive rights will be next: I do not think that the issue o f abortion can occupy such a fertile place in the Greek imaginary. Homosexuality (esp the male variety) certainly can: homophobia is I believe a very strong undercurrent to greek gender politics and as such, functions perfectly as the ready made bugbear, to be seized in moments of anxiety over collective identity. But of course, this is just my opinion, as this is not my field of research. I think the time is more than ripe for research on the place of homosexuality in the greek social imaginary. Any takers?? Constantina From: Brian Riedel > Date: Sat Nov 6, 2004 1:47:58 pm Europe/London > To: > Cc: > Subject: Re: [MGSA-L] The Stone Age of Arch. Christodoulos > > While by no means an expert on the Church, I can attest that this sort > of commentary on current events runs back at least a few years, and > does not represent a startling new trend. ?During the run up to the > trial of Yasser Hamada and Tzannetos Tzapatzaris in 2001, on charges > linked to the infamous article 347, various members of the Church were > actively promoting similar perspectives in the media. > > Brian Riedel > PhD Candidate > Department of Anthropology > Rice University > > on 11/5/04 11:35 AM, AKarpathak@aol.com at AKarpathak@aol.com wrote: > > For those of u studying gender and sexuality issues, why the issue of > homosexuality now in the Greek Church? ?Theories???? ??Explanations??? > ?The Church went from political nationalism to solidly placing itself > in the ranks of right wing conservative churches by entering the area > of sexuality. ?Is the issue of reproductive rights next??? ? > > WHY??? ??What is going on??? ?(And yes, that is probably somebody's > dissertation or book, but, please, share some of this stuff with us.) > ? > > Anna K. > > > In a message dated 10/31/2004 9:38:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, > iioannou@hbs.edu writes: > > http://www.typos.com.cy/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=46930 > > Ioannis Ioannou > Doctoral Student > PhD Business Economics > Harvard Economics Dept and Business School > Boston, MA 02163 > www.people.hbs.edu/iioannou > > _______________________________________________ > List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 4603 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041111/a62242ea/attachment.bin From iioannou at hbs.edu Thu Nov 11 06:17:46 2004 From: iioannou at hbs.edu (Ioannis Ioannou) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:44 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Mitsotakis' Statement for Tassos Papadopoulos Message-ID: http://www.politis.com.cy/cgibin/hweb?-A=14627&-V=brnews&-w= Ioannis Ioannou Doctoral Student PhD Business Economics Harvard Economics Dept and Business School Boston, MA 02163 www.people.hbs.edu/iioannou www.businessdoc.org "At bottom every man knows well enough that he is a unique being, only once on this earth; and by no extraordinary chance will such a marvelously picturesque piece of diversity in unity as he is, ever be put together a second time." Friedrich Nietzsche From tombooli at hotmail.com Thu Nov 11 00:31:44 2004 From: tombooli at hotmail.com (linda tombaugh) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:44 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] RE: Fw: more on Herodotus and a contemporary application Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041111/314eca1a/attachment.html From JUNESAM at aol.com Thu Nov 11 08:14:53 2004 From: JUNESAM at aol.com (JUNESAM@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:44 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Greek author nominatied for literary prize Message-ID: <36.66776ff1.2ec4e9fd@aol.com> Panos Karnezis, The Maze (The story of a retreating Greek brigade that has lost its way in 1920s Anatolia.) has been shortlisted for the 2004 Whitbread first novel award. And one of the nominees for the main 2004 Whitbread award is also about Antaolia : Louis de Bernieres : Birds Without Wings http://www.whitbread-bookawards.co.uk/ June Samaras KALAMOS BOOKS (For Books about Greece) 725 Vermouth Ave (# 1) Mississauga, Ontario L5A 3X5 Canada Tel : 905-27204841 e-mail : Kalamosbks @aol.com www.kalamosbooks.com From iioannou at hbs.edu Thu Nov 11 14:15:55 2004 From: iioannou at hbs.edu (Ioannis Ioannou) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:44 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] American Airlines flights to Ercan Airport Message-ID: Hello, It came to my attention from the Cyprus media that American Airlines have already listed Ercan Airport (known as the Tymbou Airport) under the airport code "ECN" on their website. I checked just today but I wasnt able to find any specific flights but the airport is already listed. Some details at the following: http://www.zaman.com/?bl=international&alt=&trh=20041107&hn=13660 Best, Ioannis Ioannou Doctoral Student PhD Business Economics Harvard Economics Dept and Business School Boston, MA 02163 www.businessdoc.org www.people.hbs.edu/iioannou "At bottom every man knows well enough that he is a unique being, only once on this earth; and by no extraordinary chance will such a marvelously picturesque piece of diversity in unity as he is, ever be put together a second time." Friedrich Nietzsche From AKarpathak at aol.com Thu Nov 11 08:19:06 2004 From: AKarpathak at aol.com (AKarpathak@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:44 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Trip of Pope John Paul II to Phanar canceled Message-ID: <0F245CA7.4774E705.09E588BC@aol.com> Three questions: 1. Why was it cancelled? (I couldn't read between the lines, partly a result of my language difficulties w/ Greek.) 2. What are the consquences for whom/what? 3. Where are the remains of St. John Chrysostom and Gregory the Theologian? Anna K. In a message dated 11/10/2004 7:05:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, "Christos D. Katsetos" writes: > >In one of my previous posts to MGSA-L I had speculated that the prospect >of an official visit of Pope John Paul II to Phanar* will be a critical >test as to the contested "Ecumenical" status of Patriarch Vartholomaios >by Turkey ahead of the December 17th EU summit in Brussels. >http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/2004-July/003764.html > >It turns out that the much anticipated historic visit of Pope John Paul >II to the Ecumenical Patriarchate, which was originally scheduled for >November 30th of this year (St. Andrew's Day), has been canceled. >http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?id=33&cat=apofasis > >Instead, the Pope has pledged to return to Phanar the holy remains of >Saints John Chrysostom and Gregory the Theologian, which was accepted as >a gesture of good will. >http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?id=21&cat=anakinothenta > >C.D.K. > >Footnote/related links > >[*] Announcement of the visit of Pope John Paul II to the Patriarchate >of Constantinople, scheduled for November 30th, 2004: >http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2004/07/02/patriarch_pope/index.html >http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_100016_03/07/2004_44641 > >http://www.sabah.com.tr/2004/07/03/gun106.html >http://www.milliyet.com.tr/2004/07/03/siyaset/siy07.html >http://www.radikal.com.tr/veriler/2004/07/03/haber_121073.php >http://www.stargazete.com.tr/index.asp?haberID=54554 > From apostpapageorg at ath.forthnet.gr Thu Nov 11 12:25:58 2004 From: apostpapageorg at ath.forthnet.gr (apostpapageorg) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:44 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Re:Just to remember some pages of the modern Greek history and how they were created... Message-ID: <000001c4c82c$cce1c1c0$299710d5@pc2> Found the attached recent news dispatch. The reason is to bring into our memory a recent sad page of the history of Greece. Its organising of the 2004 Olympics... and its "problems."... which as seen here are repeated and elsewhere..... So the industry of fabulations is getting early on its usual job..... Apostolos Papageorgiou apostpapageorg@ath.forthnet.gr Beijing mayor fears expectations too high for 2008 Olympics Canadian Press Thursday, November 11, 2004 BEIJING (AP) - Beijing Mayor Wang Qishan is worried that the 2008 Olympics might suffer from overblown expectations, unruly Chinese fans and poorly planned construction, according to an interview published Thursday. China is staking its national prestige on the Beijing Games, promising a huge building program for sporting venues and improvements to the Chinese capital's subways and other public facilities. "These kinds of expectations should be treated as a burden," the weekly newspaper Southern Weekend quoted Wang as saying. Wang also expressed disdain for Chinese fans who booed during the playing of Japan's national anthem during the Asian Cup soccer tournament in August, hinting that he feared a repeat in 2008. During the Japan-China soccer final - which Japan won - spectators "created such an uproar during the anthem that it couldn't be heard at all," the mayor said. Chinese supporters also pelted Japanese fans with garbage and hung banners protesting Japan's Second World War aggression against China. The mayor criticized construction plans, arguing that the three-billion-yuan ($433 million Cdn) National Stadium under construction should serve more uses. It is slated to hold the opening and closing ceremonies as well as track and field events. Wang said it should host soccer games, too. Wang already has ordered organizers to scale back construction plans, calling for a "frugal Olympics." But at the same time, he told the Southern Weekend that cost-cutting means the main stadium will be roofless - a danger if it rains. Organizers have slowed their frantic pace of stadium construction after advice from the International Olympic Committee. They have also cut the number of new venues to be built following fears that costs might spiral out of control. Beijing expects to spend $2 billion US on sports venues, plus $24.2 billion US on new subway lines, roads and other facilities by 2008. ? The Canadian Press 2004 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041111/2b3cb365/attachment.html From mkliro at sfsu.edu Thu Nov 11 08:42:31 2004 From: mkliro at sfsu.edu (mkliro@sfsu.edu) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:44 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] MLA matters Message-ID: <1100191351.4193967730982@webmail.sfsu.edu> Dear List Members and Colleagues in Modern Greek Literary Studies: I wanted to share my response with you when asked by a representative of the MLA as to why I have not renewed my membership. Best, MK ---- Forwarded message from mkliro@sfsu.edu ----- Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 08:35:01 -0800 From: mkliro@sfsu.edu Reply-To: mkliro@sfsu.edu Subject: Re: Your MLA Membership Dear Ms. Feal: I have always maintained a great respect and admiration for the MLA and have given a number of papers at its meetings at the joint MLA-Modern Greek Association's sessions (1992, 1993, 2002). The poor turn-out at these sessions, however, has made me feel rather discouraged from further participating and accounts for why I have decided not to renew my membership. The lack of recognition of the field of Modern Greek literary studies within this arena, which is also reflected in the inadequate publication record of anything related to the field in the PMLA, are serious matters for the MLA to reflect upon, especially if the Association truly believes that it represents all the world's languages and literatures. There is more that the MLA "can" and "should" do to foster further interest in the field, in my opinion. There are over 20 Modern Greek programs in the U.S. (check our website: www.mgsa.org), including a number of endowed and prestigious literary chairs (e.g., Harvard, San Francisco State University, the University of Michigan); major studies published in the field of Modern Greek literature and culture in reputable and revered academic presses, etc. (Princeton, Harvard, Stanford, UC Berkeley, etc.). Yet somehow there is a lack of representation and intellectual exchange within the activities of the Association. I would be happy to continue this conversation with any of the MLA officers. You have my permission to share this communication with them. In fact, I insist that you do. Best wishes, Martha Klironomos Associate Professor Director, Center for Modern Greek Studies The Nikos Kazantzakis Chair San Francisco State University From xalkinos at cytanet.com.cy Thu Nov 11 15:14:07 2004 From: xalkinos at cytanet.com.cy (Lampros F. Kallenos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:44 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] American Airlines flights to Ercan Airport References: Message-ID: <010401c4c844$25894160$50026f0a@LocalHost> > Ercan Airport (known as the Tymbou Airport) Nothing of the like. It is really the Tympou airport. But Turkey, trying to turkify the occupied area, forced the Greek inhabitants to leave, brought tens of thousands of settlers, and also tries to force new toponymies. Tympou, in particular, has been given the name of Ercan. There are international conventions according to which military occupying a country and changing its demography is considered a crime of war. Similarly, there is a UN international aggreement, about geographical names standardisation. This also defines the legal acceptable procedure for changing the toponymies of a country. According to this, the only authority to do it is the legal government of the country. It should be added, since it seems to give the spirit of the convention, that for what it concerns transliteration, not only is this geographical name standardised and protected, but also the corresponding geographical term. Representing Greek letters with capital Latin letters (Betacode scheme), what is known as PEDIADA THS MESAORIAS should be transliterated as ''Pediada tis Mesaorias valley''. ________________________ Lampros F. Kallenos Idalion, Lefkosia Kypros -- From dkatseto at bellatlantic.net Thu Nov 11 06:09:04 2004 From: dkatseto at bellatlantic.net (Christos D. Katsetos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:45 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Trip of Pope John Paul II to Phanar canceled References: <0F245CA7.4774E705.09E588BC@aol.com> Message-ID: <41937280.E4C6CA60@bellatlantic.net> AKarpathak@aol.com wrote: > Three questions: > 1. Why was it cancelled? (I couldn't read between the lines, partly a result of my language difficulties w/ Greek.) According to the content of the letter, no specific reasons were given. No doubt, the Pontiff's frail health could have been an important contributing factor in this regard. This is certainly a good enough reason but at the same time it is somewhat predictable - or too symmetrical, if you will. Another possible reason is that the Pope -perhaps on second thought- wanted to spare the Patriarch from a potential embarrassment (vide infra) and by the same token, the Turkish authorities from an acute migrainous episode let alone a security nightmare. > > > 2. What are the consequences for whom/what? The visit of the Pope to Phanar would have been seen as recognition of the Patriarch's Ecumenical authority and prestige as the spiritual leader of 200 million Orthodox Christians throughout the world, and as the 'primus inter pares' (the 'first among equals') in the hierarchy of the Eastern Orthodox Church. However, as I have pointed out in several of my previous posts, the 'legal status' of the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate is as a highly sensitive issue throughout the history of modern Turkey [1]. Not only does the Turkish Republic not recognize the Patriarch's 'Ecumenical' title but is vehemently opposed to it on principle [2]. It follows then that the invitation of the Prelate of Rome by the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople-New Rome [or "Fener Greek Patriarch" according to the Turkish perspective] would have been construed by Ankara as an act of defiance on the part of the Patriarch, especially in the wake of the December 17th summit in Brussels. This would have irritated or potentially enraged the Turkish authorities and policy makers (as was in fact the case recently [2, 3]). > > > 3. Where are the remains of St. John Chrysostom and Gregory the Theologian? The holy relics, the bones of the Patriarchs Saints John Chrysostom and Gregory the Theologian (Nazianzen) were seized during the Sack of Constantinople by the Crusaders in c. 1204. Since then the remains of the saints have been kept for eight centuries in the tombs of St. Peter's Basilica. Again, a Vatican delegation is expected to return the relics to Phanar on the occasion of the Orthodox feast day of Saint Andrew on November 30th. C.D.K. Footnotes: [1] https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/2004-November/004299.html http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/texts/Psomiades_ecupat.html [2] See article by Sema Sezer, ASAM, titled "Patriarch Bartholomeos's Statement and the Reactions to It", published in Avrasya Dosyasi (Eurasian File). http://www.avsam.org/english/haftalikanaliz/09-12_08_2004/main.htm Also, you may peruse the official Turkish position on the subject of the Greek Patriarchate in Phanar directly from Web Site of the Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs http://www.mfa.gov.tr/grupa/ac/ace/default.htm Last, see article by Dr. A. Suat Bilge, senior diplomat and former Turkish Ambassador to Bern, titled "The Fener Greek Patriarchate." http://www.turk-yunan.gen.tr/english/articles/01.html [3] "On this 49th anniversary of the Greek Krystallnacht in Istanbul" http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/2004-September/004010.html > > > Anna K. > > In a message dated 11/10/2004 7:05:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, "Christos D. Katsetos" writes: > > > > >In one of my previous posts to MGSA-L I had speculated that the prospect > >of an official visit of Pope John Paul II to Phanar* will be a critical > >test as to the contested "Ecumenical" status of Patriarch Vartholomaios > >by Turkey ahead of the December 17th EU summit in Brussels. > >http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/2004-July/003764.html > > > >It turns out that the much anticipated historic visit of Pope John Paul > >II to the Ecumenical Patriarchate, which was originally scheduled for > >November 30th of this year (St. Andrew's Day), has been canceled. > >http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?id=33&cat=apofasis > > > >Instead, the Pope has pledged to return to Phanar the holy remains of > >Saints John Chrysostom and Gregory the Theologian, which was accepted as > >a gesture of good will. > >http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?id=21&cat=anakinothenta > > > >C.D.K. > > > >Footnote/related links > > > >[*] Announcement of the visit of Pope John Paul II to the Patriarchate > >of Constantinople, scheduled for November 30th, 2004: > >http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2004/07/02/patriarch_pope/index.html > >http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_100016_03/07/2004_44641 > > > >http://www.sabah.com.tr/2004/07/03/gun106.html > >http://www.milliyet.com.tr/2004/07/03/siyaset/siy07.html > >http://www.radikal.com.tr/veriler/2004/07/03/haber_121073.php > >http://www.stargazete.com.tr/index.asp?haberID=54554 > > > _______________________________________________ > List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041111/41cd104d/attachment.html From xalkinos at cytanet.com.cy Thu Nov 11 16:25:51 2004 From: xalkinos at cytanet.com.cy (Lampros F. Kallenos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:45 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Veto the only choice? References: <41937ADC.DEB55FA7@froggy.com.au> Message-ID: <013701c4c84e$2a80b9a0$50026f0a@LocalHost> So, Mr Drousiotis is now saying that Cyprus, having entered the EU, became stronger and has in its hands an effective weapon... And he is also saying that, that was the reason why foreign countries were urgent to achieve a solution before 1 of May... And he is even saying that the entrance of Cyprus in the EU has changed the status quo in the area.... Well, yes, he is right, very correct. That's exactly our understanding too. These things were also some of the reasons why we rejected the Coffee Ananas plan. Contrary to what Mr. Drousiotis, and his friends, tried so hard to convince us, we didn't reject the plan because of some kind of chauvinism, or because of a vague mentality that "we did not want a solution". The Coffee plan was rejected after an analysis by simple logic. So, what Drousiotis is now writing, comes in total contrast with his previous scriptures. Nevertheless, and despite this contradiction, Drousiotis is still able to find reasons to blame leventis president Tassos. Should we be surprised? Wasn't he the one who, on the anniversary of the Turkish invasion, was explaining why Papadopoulos is the same as Denktas? Despite these, Mr. Drousiotis is still obliged to explain to us why Mr. Drousiotis is the same ...as Mr. Drousiotis. ________________________ Lampros F. Kallenos Idalion, Lefkosia Kypros -- From AKarpathak at aol.com Thu Nov 11 21:45:46 2004 From: AKarpathak at aol.com (AKarpathak@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:45 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Check out A Petition to Congress requesting an investigation into the Preside Message-ID: Hello folks: The link below is for a petition re: most recent presidential elections in the U.S. There is provided thru a link below, and there is another one at MoveOn.org and I am sure that by tomorrow such petitions will be circulating. _Click here: A Petition to Congress requesting an investigation into the Presidential Election of 2004 Petition_ (http://www.petitiononline.com/uselect/petition.html) I have one question: Given the contested nature of the referendum in Cyprus, were any such petitions circulated? What would such a petition mean within the Cypriot context? Thanks, Anna K. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041112/9a0fb2f4/attachment.html From cvrhasd at techunix.technion.ac.il Thu Nov 11 23:51:44 2004 From: cvrhasd at techunix.technion.ac.il (Samuel Hassid) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:45 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Veto the only choice? In-Reply-To: <013701c4c84e$2a80b9a0$50026f0a@LocalHost> Message-ID: Dear Mr. Kalenos I do not have any sympathy for mr. Drousiotis and his articles, but truth is still the truth: In Eleytherotypia, one or two days after the referendum, Mr. Drousiotis said exactly that out of the 77% who voted NO about 10 % rejected the plan because they did not want any kind of power sharing with the turks - and the rest because they thought it was disfunctional. I would also urge you not to overestimate the power of the Cyprus veto. The image some 10 years ago - the very semester that Greece held the european presidency - of all 14 European ambassadors queuing to recognize the (FYRo) Macedonia is something that some of us have not forgotten. On Fri, 12 Nov 2004, Lampros F. Kallenos wrote: > So, Mr Drousiotis is now saying that Cyprus, having entered the > EU, became stronger and has in its hands an effective weapon... > > And he is also saying that, that was the reason why foreign > countries were urgent to achieve a solution before 1 of May... > > And he is even saying that the entrance of Cyprus in the EU has > changed the status quo in the area.... > > Well, yes, he is right, very correct. > > That's exactly our understanding too.These things were also > some of the reasons why we rejected theCoffee Ananas plan. > > Contrary to what Mr. Drousiotis, and his friends, tried so hard > to convince us, we didn't reject the plan because of some kind of > chauvinism, or because of a vague mentality that "we did not want > a solution".The Coffee plan was rejected after an analysis by > simple logic. > > > So, what Drousiotis is now writing, comes in total contrast with > his previous scriptures.Nevertheless, and despite this > contradiction, Drousiotis is still able to find reasons to blame > leventis president Tassos.Should we be surprised? Wasn't he > the one who, on the anniversary of the Turkish invasion, was > explaining why Papadopoulos is the same as Denktas? > > Despite these, Mr. Drousiotis is still obliged to explain to us > why Mr. Drousiotis is the same ...as Mr. Drousiotis. > > ________________________ > Lampros F. Kallenos > Idalion, Lefkosia > Kypros > -- > > _______________________________________________ > List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l > From iioannou at hbs.edu Thu Nov 11 21:43:46 2004 From: iioannou at hbs.edu (Ioannis Ioannou) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:45 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Veto the only choice? In-Reply-To: <013701c4c84e$2a80b9a0$50026f0a@LocalHost> Message-ID: Firstly I would like to note that it is really a sad fact, that messages such as the one by Mr Kallenos are actually going through the moderator and degrade the level of discussion in this email list. I am of course referring to the part where Mr. Kallenos, is referring to the Secretary General of the United Nations as Mr. "Coffee Ananas". I suggest that in the future, a higher level of discussion is maintained by the moderator of this list and indeed, more seriously, by the discussants. Having said that, it seems pointless to revert to a discussion about the issues that Mr. Kallenos is raising, as these reflect a certain mentality, a certain frame of mind, a certain damage imposed upon the political culture of the Cypriots that at this point seems irreversible. Clearly, Mr. Kallenos did not comprehend the article by Mr. Drousiotis, who was merely trying to show the dead-end and contradictory politics of the Papadopoulos administration. The message of Mr. Drousiotis is clear (please please note the sarcastic tone in his article): Anything less than a veto, would be a direct contradiction, to the hard line conservative opportunistic politics of Mr. Papadopoulos and his followers. Nonetheless, people (even though the minority still) are coming to realize the possible effects of a veto. At the same time the government of Greece keeps its distance from the politics of Cyprus. It is essential to note today's statement by ex prime minister Mitsotakis, no matter how hard our mediocre politicians and propagandists in Cyprus try to fight such realistic views. As to whether the Anan plan was rejected based on logic, it is an issue open for discussion. Mr. Kallenos seems to be neglecting to mention the infinite ignorance of the Cypriots when they voted for this plan. And these are facts, not merely arguments. The polls that were published in the press at the time, specifically Phileleftheros, showed that more than 40% of the people did not know the provisions and actually had never read even a short summary of the Anan Plan. Of course, they trusted their leader, the well known Mr. Papadopoulos, and this effect seems to persist i.e the worshipping of a blind crowd that is, as Mr. Kallenos' last email sadly exemplifies. Best, Ioannis Ioannou Doctoral Student PhD Business Economics Harvard Economics Dept and Business School Boston, MA 02163 www.businessdoc.org www.people.hbs.edu/iioannou "At bottom every man knows well enough that he is a unique being, only once on this earth; and by no extraordinary chance will such a marvelously picturesque piece of diversity in unity as he is, ever be put together a second time." Friedrich Nietzsche From iioannou at hbs.edu Fri Nov 12 09:00:45 2004 From: iioannou at hbs.edu (Ioannis Ioannou) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:45 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] FW: Mitsotakis' Statment Message-ID: ???????? ?????????? ???? ??? ???????? ? ?.?????????? ???????? ? ????? ???????????? ?. ??????????, ???????? ??? ????????? ??? ???????????? ????? ????????? ???? ?????, ???? ?????? ??????? ??? ??? ?? ????? ??? ???? ?????????? ??? ???????? ??? ????????? ??????????? ?????? ???????????? ??? ????????. "? ????? ??? ??????? ? ?. ???????????? ????? ???????? ??? ?????????? ????? ??? ???????? ?????????? ??? ???? ???????? ?? ????, ????????, ???????? ???????", ???? ? ?. ??????????. ?? ???????????? ???????? ??? ???? ?????????? ?????? ??????, ? ?. ?????????? ?????????? ??? ? ???????? ???????????? ????? ??????? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????????? ??????? ?? ????????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ?????. ? ?. ?????????? ??????????? ??? ? ???????? ???????????? ?????????? ?? ??????? ???? ??? ???????? ??? ?? ???????????? ?? ?????? ????, ???? ??? ???????? ????? ???????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ????????? ??? ????? ??????. ??? ?????? ??? ??????? ????????? ??? ??????? ?????? ???? ?????. ?????????? ?? ????????? ??? ????????? ??? ?????? ???". ? ???????? ?????????, ????????, ?????? ?? ????????? ?? ???????? ?? ?????? ??? ???????? ?? ??? ?????, ?? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ??????? ????? ??? ?? ????? ? ??????. ? ?. ?????????? ???? ??? ? ???????? ?????? ?????? ?? ??????????? ?? ????? ??? ?? ??? ????? ???????, ???????????? ??? ? ????? ????? ??????? ??? ''??? ????? ?????? ?? ?????????''. ??????????? ??? ? ???????? ?????? ?????? ?? ?????????, ?? ??????, ?? ??? ???????? ????? ? ????? ??? ??????? ??? ??? ?????????? ????? ?????? ??? ?,?? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ????????? ??? ????????? ??? ??? ??????. ?????? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ?????????? ?????? ???? ??? ???????? ??? "?? ?????? ??? ???????. ????? ??????? ???? ???????? ??? ?? ????? ????? ?? ??? ????? ???????????? ??? ?? ?????? ????????? ??????? ??? ??????? ???????". ? ????? ???????????? ?????? ??? ?? ?????? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ????? ??? ??????????? ??? ?? ???????? ??????? ????????????? ??? ??????? ?? ???????? ?????? ?? ????????????? ??????? ??? ??? ???????? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ????????????? ? ???????? ??? ??? ??????? ????. ??? ???????? ??? "???? ???????, ???? ?? ??????, ???? ???????? ???? ?????????, ????, ? ??, ? ???, ?? ??? ?????????, ????????, ?? ??? ????? ??? ????????? ??? ??????????? ???????? ?? ???? ??? ???????? ?????". Ioannis Ioannou Doctoral Student PhD Business Economics Harvard Economics Dept and Business School Boston, MA 02163 www.businessdoc.org www.people.hbs.edu/iioannou "At bottom every man knows well enough that he is a unique being, only once on this earth; and by no extraordinary chance will such a marvelously picturesque piece of diversity in unity as he is, ever be put together a second time." Friedrich Nietzsche From baloglou at Oswego.EDU Fri Nov 12 09:53:45 2004 From: baloglou at Oswego.EDU (George Baloglou) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:45 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Greek author nominatied for literary prize In-Reply-To: <36.66776ff1.2ec4e9fd@aol.com> References: <36.66776ff1.2ec4e9fd@aol.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 JUNESAM@aol.com wrote: > Panos Karnezis, The Maze > (The story of a retreating Greek brigade that has lost its way in 1920s > Anatolia.) > > has been shortlisted for the 2004 Whitbread first novel award. > > And one of the nominees for the main 2004 Whitbread award is > also about Antaolia : > > Louis de Bernieres : Birds Without Wings By coincidence I suppose, both books may be viewed as 'deconstructions' of the Asia Minor Campaign. Karnezis' book I have not seen, but I have the impression that it is at least 'honest'. de Bernieres' book is, among other things, a paean to Ataturk (with no less than 22 mini-chapters on his life and career (through 1922) strategically placed among the more fictional ones) and a relentless condemnation of Megali Idea (to the point of depicting a peace-loving Greek drowning in Smyrna thinking not of lost relatives and friends but of specific crimes committed by the Greek army). [I may report on de Bernieres' novel later on; for the time being, here is a special BBC report on Konya ... and how Ataturk's memory has faded there ... kindly submitted by this 'detached' Konialis: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4003417.stm] GB From Philobiblos at fastermac.net Fri Nov 12 10:54:44 2004 From: Philobiblos at fastermac.net (J S Philobiblos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:45 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] FW: Mitsotakis' Statment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am grateful to Mr. Ioannou for providing us with the statement by Mr. Mitsotakis because the exact text affords us the opportunity to understand more clearly some of the motivations that prompted it. Here are some thoughts. 1. The timing is interesting in the sense that it was meant to limit the flexibility of Prime Minister Karamanlis in dealing with President Papadopoulos. This is classic Mitsotakis in the sense that the effort is aimed as much at scoring points at the expense of Karamanlis as it is to the substance of the issue. Mitsotakis by these statements attempts to keep himself politically relevant by reminding Karamanlis that he is still a political force. That may or may not be so... 2. Mr. Mitsotakis? harsh criticism of the Cypriot president is explicable in the context of the ratcheting up of the pressure on Greece and Cyprus by the US at this juncture. Mitsotakis thus is positioning himself as a supporter of the American-inspired ?solution.? Other actions of the last couple of weeks may be linked: a well-known Greek academic (closely identified with the Washington line) visited Cyprus recently to promote a ?realistic? attitude by the Cypriots (i.e. to accept the last iteration of the Anan Plan without too much resistance or else...). The State Dept. diplomatic theater relating to the recognition of FYROM under its nationalist-irredentist name ?Macedonia? (an action which Mitsotakis publicly accepted as inevitable) and subsequent ?diplomatic static? re recognizing the Turkish-occupied part of Cyprus, also are part of this campaign. 3. Mr. Mitsotakis? comment that the UN ?paid to supporters of the (passage of) the Anan Plan? is interesting for the subliminal message it sends: bribing in order to achieve, in Mitsotakis? view, a just plan is acceptable. Does this absolve all those who took the UN (and US) generated bribes to promote ?just causes?, now and in the past? And a note on the use of the term ?realist? to describe acceptance of the Anan Plan. The idea is that Greece and Cyprus are so weak that to contemplate any other policy than that shoved at them by the State Dept. and its factota (the British and Mr. Anan) is unrealistic. I am reminded that the same term was used by Axis agents in the Greek press in 1939-1940 in order to have a similar effect (cf. articles in the newspaper ????? at the time): to bully the Greeks into believing that maintaining a modicum of freedom of action and national dignity were unrealistic, and that submission to superior force was the only realistic alternative. Somehow the undersigned is not convinced that we need to fly the white flag of unconditional surrender just yet. We (Greece and/or Cyprus) need not be the first to veto Turkish entry into the EU, there are plenty of epidoxoi among our European partners who have a range of motives to do the same. There are many options for skillful and careful players. Aristide Caratzas On 11/12/04 7:00 PM, "Ioannis Ioannou" wrote: > ???????? ? ????? ???????????? ?. ??????????, ???????? ??? ????????? ??? > ???????????? ????? ????????? ???? ?????, ???? ?????? ??????? ??? ??? ?? > ????? ??? ???? ?????????? ??? ???????? ??? ????????? ??????????? ?????? > ???????????? ??? ????????. "? ????? ??? ??????? ? ?. ???????????? ????? > ???????? ??? ?????????? ????? ??? ???????? ?????????? ??? ???? ???????? ?? > ????, ????????, ???????? ???????", ???? ? ?. ??????????. ?? ???????????? > ???????? ??? ???? ?????????? ?????? ??????, ? ?. ?????????? ?????????? ??? ? > ???????? ???????????? ????? ??????? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ????????? > ??????? ?? ????????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ?????. ? ?. ?????????? > ??????????? ??? ? ???????? ???????????? ?????????? ?? ??????? ???? ??? > ???????? ??? ?? ???????????? ?? ?????? ????, ???? ??? ???????? ????? > ???????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ????????? ??? ????? ??????. ??? > ?????? ??? ??????? ????????? ??? ??????? ?????? ???? ?????. ?????????? ?? > ????????? ??? ????????? ??? ?????? ???". ? ???????? ?????????, ????????, > ?????? ?? ????????? ?? ???????? ?? ?????? ??? ???????? ?? ??? ?????, ?? ??? > ????? ??? ?????? ?? ??????? ????? ??? ?? ????? ? ??????. > > ? ?. ?????????? ???? ??? ? ???????? ?????? ?????? ?? ??????????? ?? ????? > ??? ?? ??? ????? ???????, ???????????? ??? ? ????? ????? ??????? ??? ''??? > ????? ?????? ?? ?????????''. ??????????? ??? ? ???????? ?????? ?????? ?? > ?????????, ?? ??????, ?? ??? ???????? ????? ? ????? ??? ??????? ??? ??? > ?????????? ????? ?????? ??? ?,?? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ????????? ??? > ????????? ??? ??? ??????. ?????? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ?????????? ?????? ???? > ??? ???????? ??? "?? ?????? ??? ???????. ????? ??????? ???? ???????? ??? ?? > ????? ????? ?? ??? ????? ???????????? ??? ?? ?????? ????????? ??????? ??? > ??????? ???????". ? ????? ???????????? ?????? ??? ?? ?????? ???? ?????? ?? > ???? ????? ????? ??? ??????????? ??? ?? ???????? ??????? ????????????? ??? > ??????? ?? ???????? ?????? ?? ????????????? ??????? ??? ??? ???????? ?????? > ??? ?? ??? ????????????? ? ???????? ??? ??? ??????? ????. ??? ???????? ??? > "???? ???????, ???? ?? ??????, ???? ???????? ???? ?????????, ????, ? ??, ? > ???, ?? ??? ?????????, ????????, ?? ??? ????? ??? ????????? ??? ??????????? > ???????? ?? ???? ??? ???????? ?????". -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041112/3f99e477/attachment.html From xalkinos at cytanet.com.cy Fri Nov 12 10:39:37 2004 From: xalkinos at cytanet.com.cy (Lampros F. Kallenos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:45 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] FW: Mitsotakis' Statment References: Message-ID: <005201c4c8e6$f77b4220$50026f0a@LocalHost> Here has spoken Mr. Mitsotakis, ex member of Parliament with the party of Papandreou the father during the 1960's, but since having moved on in his life, because he was paid to --or so says modern Greek history. Freely and under no one's pressure, said Mr. Mitsotakis: > TH DIKH MAS, THN ELEUQERH KYPRO 'ours, the free Kypros' So, what is this non-free Kypros, what is the occupied Kypros --according to Mr. Mitsotakis, that is? According to most people's language knowledge, the speaker thinks that the other part is not ours. Well, now, this reminded me of a proverb we have around here, in Kypros. People, says the proverb, put the tail of the dog in a tube for 40 years. At that time no one invented politically correct yet, and so no one was worrying whether they might thus violating the human rights of the dog's tail. Anyway, after 40 years, they took the tail out. And, voila!, the tail was still fully bend in a nice dog-like curve!! No change. Such is Mr. Mitsotakis, the person who thought he should publicly criticize the Hellenism of Kypros --presumably aiming to our own good, no? ________________________ Lampros F. Kallenos Idalion, Lefkosia Kypros -- From iioannou at hbs.edu Fri Nov 12 10:44:44 2004 From: iioannou at hbs.edu (Ioannis Ioannou) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:45 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] FW: Mitsotakis' Statment In-Reply-To: <81.1a9cd008.2ec65921@aol.com> Message-ID: Is is the suggestion of this email that anyone that has a different opinion should simply be silenced? Even though the parties that belong the the Papadopoulos coalition, all had a word of bitterness to say, Mr. Anastasiades at least remains frank and is not afraid to speak out against the absurdity of the government policy. His statement with regards to Mitsotakis' statements can be found here: http://www.politis.com.cy/cgibin/hweb?-A=14653 &-V=brnews&-w= Let us not forget that Mr. Anastasiades represents the party with the highest percentage of electoral vote according to the last polls and Euro-Elections earlier this year. Disagreement is one thing, silencing the opposition is quite another, indeed unacceptable by all democratic standards. Best, Ioannis Ioannou Doctoral Student PhD Business Economics Harvard Economics Dept and Business School Boston, MA 02163 www.businessdoc.org www.people.hbs.edu/iioannou "At bottom every man knows well enough that he is a unique being, only once on this earth; and by no extraordinary chance will such a marvelously picturesque piece of diversity in unity as he is, ever be put together a second time." Friedrich Nietzsche _____ From: LYNGOS@aol.com [mailto:LYNGOS@aol.com] Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 1:21 PM To: iioannou@hbs.edu; mgsa-l@uci.edu Subject: Re: [MGSA-L] FW: Mitsotakis' Statment In a message dated 11/12/04 09:38:19 Pacific Standard Time, iioannou@hbs.edu writes: ???????? ?????????? ???? ??? ???????? ? ?.?????????? If Mr. Mitsotakis indeed he is caring about Hellenism, first, he should stay away from things that are none of his business, and second, he should keep away his daughter Dora Mpakogiannis from visiting "think-tanks" like the Western Policy Center, that have been following a clear anti-Hellenic policy by calling F.Y.R.O.M. as "Makedonia", for long time as it is becoming clear from the following, for fair use only article: (Please note the date. With "friends" like them who needs any enemies). http://www.westernpolicy.org/Secondary.asp?PageName=About http://www.westernpolicy.org/Secondary.asp?PageName=Publication Contributing Authors Trouble in Macedonia? By Stephen Schwartz Published 3/12/2004 Tech Central Station I met the then-president of Macedonia, Boris Trajkovski, only three months ago, at the end of November 2003. The occasion was perhaps an unexpected one for those who know Balkan politics: an official celebration of Albania's national holiday, known as Flag Day, observed on November 28. After all, Albanians and Slav Macedonians have not recently gotten along well. The location was the Hotel Continental in Skopje, the Macedonian capital, which the Albanians call Shkup. We exchanged pleasantries and I wished him well, for everything I had heard about him was good -- something particularly unexpected in the Balkans. Now he is dead, killed in a plane crash near Stolac in Bosnia-Hercegovina on February 26. I also know Stolac well -- once a virtual museum-city of Ottoman architecture, all of its mosques and Turkish-style houses were destroyed by Serbian and Croat forces during the wars of Yugoslav succession in the 1990s. Stolac is a special spiritual place, where one of the greatest Bosnian rabbis, R. Moshe Danon, who died in the 19th century, is buried. Before the Holocaust, Rabbi Danon's sarcophagus was a place of common pilgrimage for Bosnian Jews. A "macedonia" is an Italian name for a fruit salad, allegedly derived from the mixed-up nature of the country's ethnic profile. While other of the ex-Yugoslav states have suffered worse bloodshed since the collapse that began in 1991, Macedonia has doubtless undergone the most confusion. Because Greece objected to a country with a Slav majority bearing the name of the ancient state that produced Alexander the Great, the country officially bears the burdensome title of "The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia." In addition, it has been extremely slow in extracting itself from the legacy of Tito's "self-managed socialism" -- it is the only ex-Yugoslav state to still bear the Communist Red Star on its shield. And although it was uniquely allowed by Slobodan Milosevic and his minions in Belgrade to secede from Yugoslavia peacefully in 1991, it ended up experiencing an ethnic war of its own, beginning a decade later, and pitting its Slav Macedonians, who make up a little more than 60 percent of the population, against its Albanian minority which numbers between 20 and 40 percent, depending on who does the counting. The religious profiles of the two countries exactly reverse one another: Slavs Macedonians are mainly Christian Orthodox with a Slavic-speaking Muslim minority, while the Albanians are mainly Muslim with a small Catholic community in their ranks. Macedonia also has a minor ethnic Turkish presence and a remarkably well-integrated Roma, or "Gypsy" community. The brief, atrocious war of 2001 was caused by visible discrimination against the local Albanians. "Visible" is the correct term, for the disparity between the way the two communities live cannot be hidden. Skopje is divided by the river Vardar. The city was devastated by an earthquake in 1963, and on one bank, inhabited by the Slavs, the city was rebuilt. On the other bank, which houses exceptionally beautiful Ottoman mosques, the impressive warehouses used in centuries past by Christian merchants from Dubrovnik, and a vast marketplace known as Bitpazar, one finds an Albanian ghetto. Albanian grievances have nalso centered on inequities in the use of language in the legal system, education, and underrepresentation in local government. On the other hand, paradoxically enough, Albanians are noticeably more entrepreneurial than Slav Macedonians. While the typical young Albanian dreams of opening an internet caf?, his Slav counterpart fantasizes about a job in the halls of the state bureaucracy. Indeed, before 2001, Bitpazar, however archaic it appeared, was a hive of business and entertainment. Since the war its neglect has increased. Boris Trajkovski was one of the few positive figures in Slav Macedonian politics. He was, in his own way, as heterodox as his country: among other things, he was a Methodist minister. He was elected to the presidency in 1999, and reelected in 2002, as the standard-bearer of a party with a name even more cumbersome than that imposed on the country: the International Macedonian Revolutionary Organization/Democratic Party of Macedonian National Unity (VMRO-DPMNE). The VMRO-DPMNE has one of the most extraordinary histories of any ruling party in Europe; in the 1920s and 1930s it was a much-feared revolutionary group that engaged in open terrorism. Yet its original platform was for Macedonian independence rather than Slav nationalism, and even after 2001 Trajkovski found a way to achieve a truce with the restive Albanians, ruling for a time in coalition with the leading Albanian force, the Democratic Party of Albanians. However, in 2003 the VMRO-DPMNE lost its mandate, and while Trajkovski remained in the presidency, real power came to be exercised by a much less-reliable politician, Branko Crvenkovski of the post-Communist Social Democratic Alliance. (New elections are expected this year). Albanians, including in Macedonia, have few friends, and have lately been the object of blandishments by the Wahhabi sect originating in Saudi Arabia, which seeks to enlist them in a jihad against their neighbors. Trajkovski was trusted by Albanians, which made him an irreplaceable asset for a country prone to division. They will remember that he supported university education in the Albanian language, which most Slav Macedonian leaders firmly opposed, and that once, when he visited the Macedonian-Albanian capital of Tetovo, in Western Macedonia, he spoke to them in Albanian. At a time when the Balkans seemed to have fallen off the map of world trouble spots, the loss of a good man might unfortunately spell new disruption and even bloodshed. Stephen Schwartz recently wrote for TCS on the Bin Laden family. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041112/2c778abe/attachment.html From LYNGOS at aol.com Fri Nov 12 10:21:21 2004 From: LYNGOS at aol.com (LYNGOS@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:45 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] FW: Mitsotakis' Statment Message-ID: <81.1a9cd008.2ec65921@aol.com> In a message dated 11/12/04 09:38:19 Pacific Standard Time, iioannou@hbs.edu writes: > > If Mr. Mitsotakis indeed he is caring about Hellenism, first, he should stay away from things that are none of his business, and second, he should keep away his daughter Dora Mpakogiannis from visiting "think-tanks" like the Western Policy Center, that have been following a clear anti-Hellenic policy by calling F.Y.R.O.M. as "Makedonia", for long time as it is becoming clear from the following, for fair use only article: (Please note the date. With "friends" like them who needs any enemies). http://www.westernpolicy.org/Secondary.asp?PageName=About http://www.westernpolicy.org/Secondary.asp?PageName=Publication Contributing Authors Trouble in Macedonia? By Stephen Schwartz Published 3/12/2004 Tech Central Station I met the then-president of Macedonia, Boris Trajkovski, only three months ago, at the end of November 2003. The occasion was perhaps an unexpected one for those who know Balkan politics: an official celebration of Albania's national holiday, known as Flag Day, observed on November 28. After all, Albanians and Slav Macedonians have not recently gotten along well. The location was the Hotel Continental in Skopje, the Macedonian capital, which the Albanians call Shkup. We exchanged pleasantries and I wished him well, for everything I had heard about him was good -- something particularly unexpected in the Balkans. Now he is dead, killed in a plane crash near Stolac in Bosnia-Hercegovina on February 26. I also know Stolac well -- once a virtual museum-city of Ottoman architecture, all of its mosques and Turkish-style houses were destroyed by Serbian and Croat forces during the wars of Yugoslav succession in the 1990s. Stolac is a special spiritual place, where one of the greatest Bosnian rabbis, R. Moshe Danon, who died in the 19th century, is buried. Before the Holocaust, Rabbi Danon's sarcophagus was a place of common pilgrimage for Bosnian Jews. A "macedonia" is an Italian name for a fruit salad, allegedly derived from the mixed-up nature of the country's ethnic profile. While other of the ex-Yugoslav states have suffered worse bloodshed since the collapse that began in 1991, Macedonia has doubtless undergone the most confusion. Because Greece objected to a country with a Slav majority bearing the name of the ancient state that produced Alexander the Great, the country officially bears the burdensome title of "The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia." In addition, it has been extremely slow in extracting itself from the legacy of Tito's "self-managed socialism" -- it is the only ex-Yugoslav state to still bear the Communist Red Star on its shield. And although it was uniquely allowed by Slobodan Milosevic and his minions in Belgrade to secede from Yugoslavia peacefully in 1991, it ended up experiencing an ethnic war of its own, beginning a decade later, and pitting its Slav Macedonians, who make up a little more than 60 percent of the population, against its Albanian minority which numbers between 20 and 40 percent, depending on who does the counting. The religious profiles of the two countries exactly reverse one another: Slavs Macedonians are mainly Christian Orthodox with a Slavic-speaking Muslim minority, while the Albanians are mainly Muslim with a small Catholic community in their ranks. Macedonia also has a minor ethnic Turkish presence and a remarkably well-integrated Roma, or "Gypsy" community. The brief, atrocious war of 2001 was caused by visible discrimination against the local Albanians. "Visible" is the correct term, for the disparity between the way the two communities live cannot be hidden. Skopje is divided by the river Vardar. The city was devastated by an earthquake in 1963, and on one bank, inhabited by the Slavs, the city was rebuilt. On the other bank, which houses exceptionally beautiful Ottoman mosques, the impressive warehouses used in centuries past by Christian merchants from Dubrovnik, and a vast marketplace known as Bitpazar, one finds an Albanian ghetto. Albanian grievances have nalso centered on inequities in the use of language in the legal system, education, and underrepresentation in local government. On the other hand, paradoxically enough, Albanians are noticeably more entrepreneurial than Slav Macedonians. While the typical young Albanian dreams of opening an internet caf?, his Slav counterpart fantasizes about a job in the halls of the state bureaucracy. Indeed, before 2001, Bitpazar, however archaic it appeared, was a hive of business and entertainment. Since the war its neglect has increased. Boris Trajkovski was one of the few positive figures in Slav Macedonian politics. He was, in his own way, as heterodox as his country: among other things, he was a Methodist minister. He was elected to the presidency in 1999, and reelected in 2002, as the standard-bearer of a party with a name even more cumbersome than that imposed on the country: the International Macedonian Revolutionary Organization/Democratic Party of Macedonian National Unity (VMRO-DPMNE). The VMRO-DPMNE has one of the most extraordinary histories of any ruling party in Europe; in the 1920s and 1930s it was a much-feared revolutionary group that engaged in open terrorism. Yet its original platform was for Macedonian independence rather than Slav nationalism, and even after 2001 Trajkovski found a way to achieve a truce with the restive Albanians, ruling for a time in coalition with the leading Albanian force, the Democratic Party of Albanians. However, in 2003 the VMRO-DPMNE lost its mandate, and while Trajkovski remained in the presidency, real power came to be exercised by a much less-reliable politician, Branko Crvenkovski of the post-Communist Social Democratic Alliance. (New elections are expected this year). Albanians, including in Macedonia, have few friends, and have lately been the object of blandishments by the Wahhabi sect originating in Saudi Arabia, which seeks to enlist them in a jihad against their neighbors. Trajkovski was trusted by Albanians, which made him an irreplaceable asset for a country prone to division. They will remember that he supported university education in the Albanian language, which most Slav Macedonian leaders firmly opposed, and that once, when he visited the Macedonian-Albanian capital of Tetovo, in Western Macedonia, he spoke to them in Albanian. At a time when the Balkans seemed to have fallen off the map of world trouble spots, the loss of a good man might unfortunately spell new disruption and even bloodshed. Stephen Schwartz recently wrote for TCS on the Bin Laden family. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041112/1293d643/attachment.html From LYNGOS at aol.com Fri Nov 12 10:51:28 2004 From: LYNGOS at aol.com (LYNGOS@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:46 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] FW: Mitsotakis' Statment Message-ID: <87.1a87e43c.2ec66030@aol.com> In a message dated 11/12/04 10:45:10 Pacific Standard Time, iioannou@hbs.edu writes: > Is is the suggestion of this email that anyone that has a different opinion > should > simply be silenced? > When this will be the idea, it will be said. Regards to all.........L. George Sofoklis Tsapanos Visalia, Ca. "Vlachs, the autochthonous of the Hellenic peninsula". -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041112/ba4446fc/attachment.html From anagnostu.1 at osu.edu Fri Nov 12 11:17:52 2004 From: anagnostu.1 at osu.edu (ganagnos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:46 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] CONTACT INFO FOR VRASIDAS KARALIS Message-ID: <200411121917.iACJHqa09221@out1.campusi.com> Dear members, I would appreciate information about Vrasidas Karalis's email address other than the one listed for him on the web page of the University of Sydney (vrasidas.karalis@arts.usyd.edu.au). Thank you in advance Yiorgos Anagnostou ____________________________________________________________________ Find the LOWEST PRICES on books at http://www.campusi.com ! Check your SchoolEmail at http://www.campusi.com/email From dkatseto at bellatlantic.net Fri Nov 12 01:51:08 2004 From: dkatseto at bellatlantic.net (Christos D. Katsetos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:46 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] EU member Cyprus invites EU candidate Turkey to direct talks Message-ID: <4194878B.ECE4BB2C@bellatlantic.net> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4008341.stm http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?ID=33561 http://www.hurriyetim.com.tr/haber/0,,sid~1@w~3@nvid~495510,00.asp Related links http://www.phileleftheros.com.cy/main/main.asp?gid=334&id=290587 http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=492886 C.D.K. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041112/b14ed093/attachment.html From modgreek at sfsu.edu Fri Nov 12 14:03:22 2004 From: modgreek at sfsu.edu (Center for Modern Greek Studies) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:46 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Modern Greek events next week Message-ID: Modern Greek Events for SFSU International Education Week Presented by the Center for Modern Greek Studies, the Nikos Kazantzakis Chair, at SFSU; co-sponsors: Dept. of Foreign Languages and Literatures, Hellenic Students Association of SFSU All events are free and open to the public Monday, November 15, 2:00-4:30 pm, HUM 133 Screening of film, "Eternity and A Day" by Greek filmmaker, Theo Angelopoulos, Tuesday, Nov. 16, 4-5 pm, HUM 473 "Modern Greek Poetry Readings: Cavafy, Seferis, Elytis and More" by Martha Klironomos, Associate Professor and Director, Center for Modern Greek Studies, Tuesday, Nov. 16, 4-5 pm, HUM 473; followed by coffee and dessert at the Center for Modern Greek Studies, SFSU, 5-6 pm, in HUM 577, Tuesday, Nov. 16, 8 pm, HUM 587 Fourth Annual Maskaleris Lecture on Mythology and Literature This year's talk is "Classical Greece in Modern Greek Poetry" by Thanasis Maskaleris, Emeritus Professor of Classics, Comparative Literature and Creative Writing, SFSU and founding Director of the Center for Modern Greek Studies (1981-1996). Prof. Maskaleris will also be reading from his recently published work: Modern Greek Poetry: An Anthology. This event, as a part of the International Education Week, is sponsored by the following organizations from the SFSU College of Humanities: Department of Classics, Department of Creative Writing, Department of Comparative and World Literature, Center for Modern Greek Studies, Classics Students Association, Comparative Literature Student Association, The Hellenic Students Association. Wednesday, November 17, 4 p.m., HUM 473 Lecture by Evdoxios Doxiadis, lecturer, Center for Modern Greek Studies, SFSU, ?Women, Property and Dowries in Early Modern Greece,? From dkatseto at bellatlantic.net Fri Nov 12 03:23:35 2004 From: dkatseto at bellatlantic.net (Christos D. Katsetos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:46 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Press briefing by Richard Boucher on the name recognition as "Republic of Macedonia" by the US Message-ID: <41949D36.F161FECE@bellatlantic.net> Daily Press Briefing Richard Boucher, Spokesman Washington, DC November 8, 2004 http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2004/37921.htm The excerpts in the URL below pertain to the name recognition of 'Republic of Macedonia' by the US http://www.maknews.com/html/name/State_Dept_Nov_8_Excerpt.html Also, of related interest: How did the US recognize FYROM as 'Republic of Macedonia'? http://www.realitymacedonia.org.mk/web/news_page.asp?nid=3880 C.D.K. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041112/1bcb1f5b/attachment.html From mkliro at sfsu.edu Fri Nov 12 16:28:17 2004 From: mkliro at sfsu.edu (Martha Klironomos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:46 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] International Education Week/MGS Events Message-ID: November 15-19, 2004 SFSU's International Education Week Events presented by the Center for Modern Greek Studies, the Nikos Kazantzakis Chair, at SFSU; co-sponsored by the Dept. of Foreign Languages and Literatures and the Hellenic Students Association of SFSU All events are free and open to the public Monday, November 15, 2:00-4:30 pm, HUM 133 Screening of film, "Eternity and A Day" by Greek filmmaker, Theo Angelopoulos, Tuesday, Nov. 16, 4-5 pm, HUM 473 "Modern Greek Poetry Readings: Cavafy, Seferis, Elytis and More" by Martha Klironomos, Associate Professor and Director, Center for Modern Greek Studies, Tuesday, Nov. 16, 4-5 pm, HUM 473; followed by coffee and dessert at the Center for Modern Greek Studies, SFSU, 5-6 pm, in HUM 577, Tuesday, Nov. 16, 8 pm, HUM 587 Fourth Annual Maskaleris Lecture on Mythology and Literature This year's talk is "Classical Greece in Modern Greek Poetry" by Thanasis Maskaleris, Emeritus Professor of Classics, Comparative Literature and Creative Writing, SFSU and founding Director of the Center for Modern Greek Studies (1981-1996). Prof. Maskaleris will also be reading from his recently published work: Modern Greek Poetry: An Anthology. This event, as a part of the International Education Week, is sponsored by the following organizations from the SFSU College of Humanities: Department of Classics, Department of Creative Writing, Department of Comparative and World Literature, Center for Modern Greek Studies, Classics Students Association, Comparative Literature Student Association, The Hellenic Students Association. Wednesday, November 17, 4 p.m., HUM 473 Lecture by Evdoxios Doxiadis, lecturer, Center for Modern Greek Studies, SFSU, "Women, Property and Dowries in Early Modern Greece." From baloglou at Oswego.EDU Sat Nov 13 05:20:04 2004 From: baloglou at Oswego.EDU (George Baloglou) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:46 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Turkey: the Greek minority revisited Message-ID: http://www.enet.gr/online/online_text?c=110&id=87867532 http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=492889 From Philobiblos at fastermac.net Sat Nov 13 02:18:57 2004 From: Philobiblos at fastermac.net (J S Philobiblos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:46 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] FW: Mitsotakis' Statement Message-ID: One could not agree more with Mr. Ioannou?s sentiments about the freedom of those with any opinion to express it and not be silenced. But I would remind him that there are many ways to silence people, the first of which involves not arguing the points of disagreement but defaming and besmirching the reputation of those arguing them. This was a favorite tactic of those espousing ideologies that claimed to have the monopoly to the truth. Goebbels or Stalin are among the notorious examples, but not the only ones. In the case of the situation being argued in this string, namely the question of whether Cyprus/Greece should accept the State Dept. sponsored Anan Plan, the argument has been made by the proponents of the latter that there is only one choice, that of ?realism,? i.e. submission to the terms dictated by the meta-Troyskyite neo-conservatives of Washington and their Turkish Islamo-fascist allies. This is wrong, and those of us opposing abject surrender are not crazy nationalists or some other kind of extremists, which is how many of the NAI side have tried to paint us. Mr. Ioannou, you are perfectly between your rights to argue your points. Name-calling, even against President Papadopoulos, does not strengthen your arguments. It only serves to demonstrate that you are trying to silence those that do not agree with you, not by superior argument but by demeaning and diminishing proponents of the views you are arguing against. Most of us have no problem with opposing views, just with shrillness and distortion of the substance of our views. Aristide Caratzas On 11/12/04 8:44 PM, "Ioannis Ioannou" wrote: > Is is the suggestion of this email that anyone that has a different opinion > should > simply be silenced? > > Even though the parties that belong the the Papadopoulos coalition, all had a > word of bitterness to say, Mr. Anastasiades at least remains frank and is not > afraid > to speak out against the absurdity of the government policy. His statement > with regards > to Mitsotakis' statements can be found here: > > http://www.politis.com.cy/cgibin/hweb?-A=14653&-V=brnews&-w > = > > Let us not forget that Mr. Anastasiades represents the party with the highest > percentage of electoral vote according to the last polls and Euro-Elections > earlier > this year. > > Disagreement is one thing, silencing the opposition is quite another, indeed > unacceptable > by all democratic standards. > > Best, > Ioannis Ioannou > Doctoral Student > PhD Business Economics > Harvard Economics Dept and Business School > Boston, MA 02163 > www.businessdoc.org > www.people.hbs.edu/iioannou -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041113/eeca4c97/attachment.html From cvrhasd at techunix.technion.ac.il Sat Nov 13 06:33:01 2004 From: cvrhasd at techunix.technion.ac.il (Samuel Hassid) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:46 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Check out A Petition to Congress requesting aninvestigation into the Preside References: Message-ID: <003e01c4c98d$adb134e0$65804484@cv.technion.ac.il> I am not sure what Ms. Karpathakos means with the sentence "the outcome of the Cyprus referendum was contested" - if she means though - as one may surmise from the content of the attachment - that people consider the result as an outcome of electoral fraud - she is totally wrong. Some people in this list have spoken of media control, or even violence against YES supporters during the campaign, but no one has doubted the validity of the outcome, which was a convincing and unequivocal no. ----- Original Message ----- From: AKarpathak@aol.com To: mgsa-l@uci.edu Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 7:45 AM Subject: [MGSA-L] Check out A Petition to Congress requesting aninvestigation into the Preside Hello folks: The link below is for a petition re: most recent presidential elections in the U.S. There is provided thru a link below, and there is another one at MoveOn.org and I am sure that by tomorrow such petitions will be circulating. Click here: A Petition to Congress requesting an investigation into the Presidential Election of 2004 Petition I have one question: Given the contested nature of the referendum in Cyprus, were any such petitions circulated? What would such a petition mean within the Cypriot context? Thanks, Anna K. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041113/b9396098/attachment.html From andronikos at froggy.com.au Sat Nov 13 06:22:13 2004 From: andronikos at froggy.com.au (Pavlos Andronikos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:46 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Veto the only choice? References: Message-ID: <41961883.64C79F0F@froggy.com.au> Ioannis Ioannou wrote: > Mr. Kallenos seems to be neglecting to mention the > infinite ignorance of the Cypriots when they voted for this plan. Those poor dumb Cypriots, they just don't know what's good for them, do they? If only they would read even a short summary of the Anan Plan", they would soon realise what they are missing out on. Fortunately, all is not quite lost. Mr Ioannis Ioannou, "Doctoral Student" and "unique being", has dedicated himself to bringing them truth and justice the American way. As for their coffee-drinking habits, those poor Cypriots really must learn that whilst Greek coffee is good, Turkish coffee is better, and American-sponsored coffee is best. Pavlos Andronikos From Sttatharos at aol.com Sat Nov 13 10:27:38 2004 From: Sttatharos at aol.com (Sttatharos@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:46 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Greek Translation Message-ID: <1e9.2eb341d3.2ec7ac1a@aol.com> I was wondering if there was anyone on the list who would be willing to translate a letter to my uncle for me, for which I would be willing to pay for your time. It is only 2 pages, the translation need not be perfect and Id be happy to pay a reasonable fee. Please contact me directly. Thanks Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041113/6f952b48/attachment.html From iioannou at hbs.edu Fri Nov 12 21:31:45 2004 From: iioannou at hbs.edu (Ioannis Ioannou) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:46 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] FW: Mitsotakis' Statment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > One could not agree more with Mr. Ioannou's sentiments about > the freedom of > those with any opinion to express it and not be silenced. But > I would remind > him that there are many ways to silence people, the first of > which involves > not arguing the points of disagreement but defaming and > besmirching the > reputation of those arguing them. I couldnt agree more. The recent history of the Cyprus problem is a perfect example. One could refer to the controlled media, the witnessed state terror and so on. It would be interesting if we could have a study by a social psychologist, explaining the conditions and influences under which the Cypriot people were led to the referendum of April 24th. As to the issue of defaming, the attempt of Mr Papadopoulos to portray the people that voted in favor of the Anan plan, as "paid traitors", or to present the people that participated in conflict resolution workshops abroad as being "brainwashed", is exemplary of such tactics. > Mr. Ioannou, you are perfectly between your rights to argue > your points. > Name-calling, even against President Papadopoulos, does not > strengthen your > arguments. It only serves to demonstrate that you are trying > to silence > those that do not agree with you, not by superior argument > but by demeaning > and diminishing proponents of the views you are arguing > against. Most of us > have no problem with opposing views, just with shrillness and > distortion of > the substance of our views. Clearly, characterizing a political figure as conservative, opportunistic as I have done for Mr Papadopoulos in the past, would not fall under the umbrella term of "name calling". I dont see Mr Caratzas however, making any kind of comment on the issue of the SG of the UN being called "Coffee Ananas". I am sure that Mr Caratzas would agree that that kind of "name calling" does not contribute to any kind of argument and/or high level discussion. To that point, I would also like to remind to Mr Caratzas and everyone in this list that supports Mr Papadopoulos, that I received no replies for the issues I raised against him, ranging from the active participation of policemen to the "NO" campaign to the possibility of a veto vote by the government of Cyprus. Personally, I do not recall sending an email in this list, where I havent replied to each and every argument, point by point, without the name calling of the level that Mr Kallenos introduced in this list. Thus, I find the comment by Mr Karatzas as totally unsubstantiated with regards to my emails and my arguments' presentation in this email list. I have also listed a number of statements by the political allies of Mr Papadopoullos, that were calling people to commit suicide in public plazas. I am not sure whether such voices should be silenced or not, but one cannot argue that this is a shrillness and distortion of their views. Quite the contrary, their reproduction in my email was quite mild, as compared to the actual statements. Best, Ioannis Ioannou Doctoral Student PhD Business Economics Harvard Economics Dept and Business School Boston, MA 02163 www.businessdoc.org www.people.hbs.edu/iioannou "At bottom every man knows well enough that he is a unique being, only once on this earth; and by no extraordinary chance will such a marvelously picturesque piece of diversity in unity as he is, ever be put together a second time." Friedrich Nietzsche From iioannou at hbs.edu Sat Nov 13 12:48:45 2004 From: iioannou at hbs.edu (Ioannis Ioannou) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:46 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Veto the only choice? In-Reply-To: <41961883.64C79F0F@froggy.com.au> Message-ID: The level of discussion that I would like to maintain, does not allow me to comment on Mr Andronikos last email. It speaks for itself and substantiates beyond any reasonable doubt everything that I myself and other people on this list have been advocating with regards to the Cypriot mentality, the acceptance of the opposing view and the lense through which some people face the views and arguments of their compatriots. Indeed Mr Andronikos' email is a shame to this list and unacceptable by any standards. Again, I urge the moderator, but also the participants of this list to reconsider the admission and submission criteria. Best, Ioannis Ioannou Doctoral Student PhD Business Economics Harvard Economics Dept and Business School Boston, MA 02163 www.businessdoc.org www.people.hbs.edu/iioannou "At bottom every man knows well enough that he is a unique being, only once on this earth; and by no extraordinary chance will such a marvelously picturesque piece of diversity in unity as he is, ever be put together a second time." Friedrich Nietzsche > -----Original Message----- > From: mgsa-l-bounces@uci.edu [mailto:mgsa-l-bounces@uci.edu] > On Behalf Of Pavlos Andronikos > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2004 9:22 AM > To: MGSA-L > Subject: Re: [MGSA-L] Veto the only choice? > > Ioannis Ioannou wrote: > > > Mr. Kallenos seems to be neglecting to mention the infinite > ignorance > > of the Cypriots when they voted for this plan. > > Those poor dumb Cypriots, they just don't know what's good > for them, do they? If only they would read even a short > summary of the Anan Plan", they would soon realise what they > are missing out on. > > Fortunately, all is not quite lost. Mr Ioannis Ioannou, > "Doctoral Student" and "unique being", has dedicated himself > to bringing them truth and justice the American way. > > As for their coffee-drinking habits, those poor Cypriots > really must learn that whilst Greek coffee is good, Turkish > coffee is better, and American-sponsored coffee is best. > > > Pavlos Andronikos > _______________________________________________ > List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l > From cvrhasd at techunix.technion.ac.il Sat Nov 13 23:15:32 2004 From: cvrhasd at techunix.technion.ac.il (Samuel Hassid) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:46 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] cofee Message-ID: well, this is supposed to be a serious list, but some jokes do not harm from time to time. this is not a joke - there was indeed a stupid english film in the fifties with the goody british agent Bogard (the englishman...) chasing the baddie greek terrorist george tsakiris. In one scen, george tsakiris says that he "does not drink TURKISH coffee" - as stupid a statement as one can think of, since at those days every person in greece called that kind of coffee turkish. A good measure of english ignorance about what happens in Cyprus (June not included ...) My experience in Cyprus some years ago is asking for a greek coffee, to hear th cyrpiot kafetzis shout "tourkikon dia ton kalamaran" ... (he had not read the messages in mgsa apparently.) From dkatseto at bellatlantic.net Sat Nov 13 17:09:19 2004 From: dkatseto at bellatlantic.net (Christos D. Katsetos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:47 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] FW: Mitsotakis' Statment References: Message-ID: <4196B03E.EAA4C529@bellatlantic.net> The latest developments on the Cyprus front indicate that there are two main issues at hand: (a) President Papadopoulos with the full backing of the Greek Prime Minister Karamanlis has called for direct talks with the Republic of Turkey ahead of the December 17th EU Summit in Brussels. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4008341.stm This is a positive move on the part of the president so is his good will to make --using his own words-- "painful concessions" in pursuit of a "fair, viable and workable solution within the framework of the U.N.-supported Plan [a.k.a. Annan Plan]". The ball is now in Ankara's court. (b) Constantine Mitsotakis's harsh criticism of President Papadopoulos is utterly intriguing both in terms of its timing (as Mr. Caratzas insightfully pointed out) but, also, with regard to the severity of its content, to the extent that was made in an openly coercive manner. Mitsotakis's appeal (or warning if you will) to young Kostas Karamanlis "not to get carried away" by the "bad influence" of Tassos Papadopoulos comes across as strikingly high- handed. To this end, I share the view that this 'fatherly overture' is a solemn reminder of the escalating pressure exerted on the government of the Republic of Cyprus not to dare use a veto against Turkey in the upcoming EU Summit in Brussels. Surprisingly though, it is, also, a stern warning to the Greek government coming from certain elements within the governing party. Are we witnessing the makings of an early rupture within the New Democracy party or is this just plain old-fashion politics conducted by a master of the trade, well-known for his illustrious, albeit protean and undulating, political tradition since the good old days of July 1965? C.D.K. Related link http://www.phileleftheros.com.cy/main/main.asp?gid=334&id=290590 J S Philobiblos wrote: > I am grateful to Mr. Ioannou for providing us with the statement by > Mr. Mitsotakis because the exact text affords us the opportunity to > understand more clearly some of the motivations that prompted it. Here > are some thoughts. > > 1. The timing is interesting in the sense that it was meant to limit > the flexibility of Prime Minister Karamanlis in dealing with President > Papadopoulos. This is classic Mitsotakis in the sense that the effort > is aimed as much at scoring points at the expense of Karamanlis as it > is to the substance of the issue. Mitsotakis by these statements > attempts to keep himself politically relevant by reminding Karamanlis > that he is still a political force. That may or may not be so... > > 2. Mr. Mitsotakis? harsh criticism of the Cypriot president is > explicable in the context of the ratcheting up of the pressure on > Greece and Cyprus by the US at this juncture. Mitsotakis thus is > positioning himself as a supporter of the American-inspired > ?solution.? Other actions of the last couple of weeks may be linked: a > well-known Greek academic (closely identified with the Washington > line) visited Cyprus recently to promote a ?realistic? attitude by the > Cypriots (i.e. to accept the last iteration of the Anan Plan without > too much resistance or else...). The State Dept. diplomatic theater > relating to the recognition of FYROM under its nationalist-irredentist > name ?Macedonia? (an action which Mitsotakis publicly accepted as > inevitable) and subsequent ?diplomatic static? re recognizing the > Turkish-occupied part of Cyprus, also are part of this campaign. > > 3. Mr. Mitsotakis? comment that the UN ?paid to supporters of the > (passage of) the Anan Plan? is interesting for the subliminal message > it sends: bribing in order to achieve, in Mitsotakis? view, a just > plan is acceptable. Does this absolve all those who took the UN (and > US) generated bribes to promote ?just causes?, now and in the past? > > And a note on the use of the term ?realist? to describe acceptance of > the Anan Plan. The idea is that Greece and Cyprus are so weak that to > contemplate any other policy than that shoved at them by the State > Dept. and its factota (the British and Mr. Anan) is unrealistic. I am > reminded that the same term was used by Axis agents in the Greek press > in 1939-1940 in order to have a similar effect (cf. articles in the > newspaper ?????????? at the time): to bully the Greeks into believing > that maintaining a modicum of freedom of action and national dignity > were unrealistic, and that submission to superior force was the only > realistic alternative. > > Somehow the undersigned is not convinced that we need to fly the white > flag of unconditional surrender just yet. We (Greece and/or Cyprus) > need not be the first to veto Turkish entry into the EU, there are > plenty of epidoxoi among our European partners who have a range of > motives to do the same. There are many options for skillful and > careful players. > > Aristide Caratzas > > > On 11/12/04 7:00 PM, "Ioannis Ioannou" wrote: > > > ???????*?????*?? ?? ???????*?* ???????*???????????*???? ??. > ???*???????????*?*??, ?????????????*?? ???*?? ?????????*?????*?? > ?????? > > ???????*???????????*???? ?????????? ?????????????*???? ?????*?* > ??????????, ?????*?* ???*???*???? ?*???*???*?*?? ?????? ?*?*?? ???* > > ?????????* ?*???* ???????? ?????*???*?????????? ?????? > ???????*???????? ???*?? ?????????*???*???? ???*?????*???????????? > ???????????? > > ???????????????????????? ?????? ?????????*???*??. "?? ?????????* > ?????? ?*???????????* ?? ?*. ???????????????????????? ?????*???* > > ?????*?*???????* ?*???* ?????????????????*?? ???*?????* ???*?? > ???????*?*?*???? ???????????*?????*?? ?????? ?*?????* ?????*?*???????* > ???* > > ????????, ???????*????????, ???*???*?*?????? ?????????*????", > ???????? ?? ?*. ???*???????????*?*??. ???? ???????*?*?????????*???? > > ???*?????????*?? ?????? ???????* ???*???????????*?*?? ???????*???? > ??????????, ?? ?*. ???*???????????*?*?? ???????????????*???? ?????* ?? > > > ???????????????? ???????????????????????? ??*?????* ?????????*???* > ???????????? ?????? ?*???*?? ?????*??? ?*???* ??????*???*?*???* > > ???*???*?*???? ?*?? ?*?????*?*???????? ???*?? ?????? ?*???* ?????* > ?????? ?????? ?????*?????? ?????????. ?? ?*. ???*???????????*?*?? > > ?*???????????????*?*?? ?????* ?? ???????????????? > ???????????????????????? ??*?????*?*???????? ???? ???*?????*?*?? > ???*?*?* ?????* > > ???????????????* ?*?*?? ?*?? ???????????*???????????* ???? > ?????*???*?? ???*???*, ?*?????* ?????? ???????????*???? ?????*???* > > ???*?*?????????? ???????? ???????? ???????* ???*?*?? ???????? > ?????*???*?? ?*???* ?*???????????????* ?????* ?????*???* ?????*???*??. > ?????* > > ?*???*?????* ???*?* ???????*?*?*?? ???????????*?????* ?????? > ?????????????* ???????????? ?????*?* ??????????. ???*?*?????*???????* > ?*?? > > ?????????????????* ?????* ???????*?*?*?????? ?????? ?????*?????? > ??????". ?? ???????*?*?*?*?? ?*???*?*???*?*???*, ?????????*??????, > > ?????*?????* ?*?? ?????*?*?????????* ???? ???????*???*???? ???* > ?*???*?*???* ?*???* ???????????*?*?? ???? ???*?* ??????????, ???? > ???*?* > > ?????????? ?????* ???????????? ?*?? ?????????????* ???*?????* ?*???* > ?*?? ???*?????? ?* ????????????. > > > > ?? ?*. ???*???????????*?*?? ???????? ?????* ?* ?*???????*???*?? > ?*?*???????? ?????*?????* ?*?? ?????*???*???????????* ???* ?*?*?????* > > ?*???* ?*?? ???*?* ?*?*?????* ???????????*??, > ???*?????*???*???*?????? ?????* ?* ?*???????? ?????*???* > ???????*?????* ?*???* ''?????* > > ?*???????* ???*???????* ???? ?*???????????*?*??''. > ???????*?????????*???? ?????* ?* ???????*?*?*?*?? ???????????? > ?????*?????* ?*?? > > ?????*?*?????????*, ???* ?*???*?*???*, ???? ???*?* ?*???????*???*?? > ?*?*?????? ?* ?????????? ???*?? ?????????????? ?*???* ?????? > > ???????*?*?*???????? ?????*???* ???*?*?????? ?*???* ??,???* > ???????*???? ?????*?* ?????????? ?*?? ?????*???????????* ?????* > > ???????*?*?*?????? ?*???* ???*?* ????????????. ?????*?*???? > ???*?????* ?????* ?????*?????* ?*?? ???*???*?*???*?*???? ?????*?*?*?? > ???????* > > ?*???* ?????????*?????? ?????* "???* ?*???*?????? ?????? > ?????*????????. ?????*???? ?????*?*?????? ???????* ???????*???*???? > ?*???* ?*?? > > ?????*???* ?????*???? ???* ?*???* ?????????? > ?????*???????*?????????? ?????? ?*?? ?*?????????? ?????????????????* > ?????*???*???* ?????? > > ???*?*?*?*???? ?*?*??????????". ?? ???????*?* > ???????*???????????*???? ?????*?*???? ?????* ???? ?????*???*?? > ???*???* ?*?????????? ?*?? > > ???????? ?*???*???* ?????*???? ?*???* ???????*?????????*???? ?????* > ???* ???????????????* ?????*?*?*?*?? ???????????????*???????*?? ?????? > > > ?????????????* ?*?? ???????????????* ?????*?????* ?*?? > ?????????????*???????????* ???????*?????? ?????? ???*?* > ?*???????*???*?? ???????????? > > ?*?*?? ?*?? ???*?* ???*???*???????*?????????* ?* ???*???????????* > ?????* ?????* ?*?*?????????? ???????*. ?????* ???*???????????? ?????* > > "???????? ?*???*????????, ???????? ???* ?????*?*????, ???????? > ???????????????? ???????? ???????*???*?????*, ???????*, ?* ????, ?? > > ??????, ???* ?????? ???????????*?????*, ????????????????, ???? > ???*?* ???????*?? ?????* ???*???*?????*???* ?*???* > ?*???*???*?*?????????* > > ?????*?*???*?*?? ???* ???*?*?? ?????? ?????????*?????* ??????????". > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041114/85d176e4/attachment.html From iioannou at hbs.edu Sun Nov 14 06:50:05 2004 From: iioannou at hbs.edu (Ioannis Ioannou) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:47 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Further on American Airlines fligths to Cyprus Message-ID: http://ta-nea.dolnet.gr/neaweb/nsearch.print_unique?entypo=A&f=18089&m=N12&a a=1 http://www.typos.com.cy/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=47330 Best, Ioannis Ioannou Doctoral Student PhD Business Economics Harvard Economics Dept and Business School Boston, MA 02163 www.businessdoc.org www.people.hbs.edu/iioannou "At bottom every man knows well enough that he is a unique being, only once on this earth; and by no extraordinary chance will such a marvelously picturesque piece of diversity in unity as he is, ever be put together a second time." Friedrich Nietzsche From andronikos at froggy.com.au Sun Nov 14 10:22:35 2004 From: andronikos at froggy.com.au (Pavlos Andronikos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:47 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Property Rights in Cyprus Message-ID: <4197A268.DB0BD5E0@froggy.com.au> ??????? http://www.politis.com.cy/cgibin/hweb?-A=500606&-V=politis&-w=???????????@&-P ??????? ??????????? ????????? ?????? ???????? ??? ?????????? ????????? ??? ????????? /????????? ????????? ?? ?????????? ???????? ???? ????????? ?? ??????????? ?????? ??? ??????, ??? ?????? ??? ??? ???????? ???? ??????? ???????? ??????? ? ??? ????????? ??? ?????????? ??? ?????????? ?????? ????????? ??????? ??? ??????? ? ?????? ????? ??? ?.?. ???????????? ??? ????? ????? ???? ????? ???????? ??????????. ??? ??????? ??? ????????? ??? ???????? ?????????????? ????????? ??? ????????, ??? ????? ???????? ???????? ??? ??????????, ????????? ??????? ??? ?????????? ??????????? ????????. ??? ??? ?????? ??? ????????, ? ???????? ?? ??????????? ? ????? ??? ????????, ???? ??????????, ? ???? ????????? ??? ?????????? ??? ?????????? ??????, ?? ?????? ? ???????? ??????????. ? ??????? ??? ?????????? ??????????? ???????? ?? ??????????? ??? ???????? ?????????? ???? ????? ??? ??????? ????????. ? ??????? - ? ????? ??? ????????? ??????? - ??? ?????????? ??? ?????????? ??????????? ???????? ?????? ??????, ?????? ??? ???????? ?????, ????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ? ?. ??????? ??????????? , ????????? ??? ??? ???????? ??????. ? ????? ???????? ???? ??? ??????? ???????, ??? David Orams ??? ??? Linda Gram, ??? ?? East Sussex, ??? ????????, ?? ?????? ????????? ???????? ??? ????????????? ?????????? ??? ??????? ???? ? ????? ??????. ??? ?????? ?????????? ????????? ??? ?????????? ? ????????? ?????????? ?????????. ??? ??? ??????? ??? ?????? ??? ?????????? ?????????? ?? ????????, ?????? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ?????? ????? ????????? ??? ????????? ?????????. ? ??? ??????? ??? ?? ????????? ??????????: ????????? ???? ?? ???????? ??????????? ?????? ??? ??????, ??? ?????? ??? ??? ???????? ???? ???? ??????? ???????? ??? ?. ??????????. ?????? ?? ?????????? ???????? ???? ??? ????????: ?) ?? ?????????? ?????? ???? ??????? ????? ?????? ??? ???????? ???????????, ?) ?? ????????? ?????????? ??? ? ?????????? ???? ??????? ?? ???? ??? ?. ?. 7.654,83 ?. ?? ?????? ???????????, ????? ?. ?. 294, 41 ?., ????? (mesne profits) ???????? ??? ???????? 2004 ????? ???????? ??? ????????? ???? ??????? ?????? ??????? ??? ???????? ???????????, ????? ?????? ???? 8% ??? 26/10/04 ????? ????????, ?) ???????? ??? ??????? ???? ?????????? ?? ????????? ?? ??? ??? ???????????? ???? ??? ?? ?? ????????? ??? ???????? ??????? ?? ??? ???????? ??????????? ??? ?. ??????????. ?????? ???? ????????? ??? ???? ??????? ??? ??????????? ?????? ?????????????, ??????? ? ??? ?????, ?? ?? ???????? ???????? ?? ?????????? ?????? ??? ???????? ??? ???????????, ?? ????? ?? ????????? ? ??????? ? ? ???????? ???? ? ????????. ?? ???????? ??? ??????? ?? 1974, ????? ???? ??? ????? ? ?. ??????????? ???????? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ?? ???????? ?????????? ???????, ?? ??????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ??????????. ??? ??????? ??? 2003, ? ?? ????? ???? ??? ?????????? ??? ????????? ???? ??? ???????? ???????, ?? ????? ??? ??? ???????, ????????? ?? ????? ??? ??? ?? ???????, ???? ??? ????????? ??? ???? ? ???? ?? ?????? ?????? ?????????? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ?? ????? ??? ??????, ?? ? ??????? ?? ????????? ? ?????. ??? ????????? ?? ??? ??????? ??????? ???? ?????????? ??? ?? ??????? ???? ?????????? ???? ??? ??????, ??? ???? ???????????? ??? ??? ????????? ??? ??????? ???? ?????????? ??? ??? ? ????? ???????? ???? ???????? ??? ???????. ??????? ?? ????? ??????? ? ????????? ?????????? ????????? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ??????? ?? ??????????? ? ??????? ???, ? ?????? ??? ????? ???, ?? ????????? ??????? ??? ??????? ?????????? ??? ????????. ? ??????????? ?? ???? ? ???? ??? ????????? ??? ?????????? ??? ?????????? ??????, ??????? ? ??? ????? ????????? ??????? ??? ??????? ? ?????? ????? ??? ?.?. ???????????? ??? ????? ????? ???? ????? ???????? ??????????. ??????? ? ??? ???? ????????? ????????? ? ?? ??? ?????? ????????? ??? ???????? ??? ????????? ???????????. ? ???????? ?? ??????????? ??? ??? ??????? ? ??? ??????? ??? ?????????? ??????????? ? ?. ??????????? ?????????? ?? ??????, ???? ??? ?? ? ????????? ?. ?????????, ???? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ?????????? ??? ????????. ? ???????? ??? ?? ???????? ?????????? ??????? ?? ?????? ??? ??????? ???? ??? ??????????, ????? - ????? ? ?. ????????? - ?????????? ?? ???????? ??? ?????????? ?????????? ?????????? ?????????????? ?? ???????? ?????????? ??? ????????? ??? ?????????? ??? ?????????? ??? ?????????? ??????. ??????? ?????? ??????? ??? ? ??????? ???? ?????? ?????????? ?? ?????????? ?????????? ??? ??? ???????? ????? ??? ?????????? ?????????????? ????????? ??? ????????. ? ??????? ??? ?????????? ??????????? ???????? ????????? ?????????? ??? ????? ?? ??? ?? ??????? ?? ???????????? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ??????????????, ??? ?????? ??? ???????? ??? ???????? ???????? ???????? ?????????, ???????? ?? ????? ??????? ??????. ????? ????????? ? ??????? ???????:13/11/2004 ??.: 22 ???. ??????: 50060 From andronikos at froggy.com.au Sun Nov 14 10:29:57 2004 From: andronikos at froggy.com.au (Pavlos Andronikos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:47 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Atlantis Message-ID: <4197A421.EB5D1108@froggy.com.au> Go to http://www.discoveryofatlantis.com/ From baloglou at Oswego.EDU Sun Nov 14 13:26:44 2004 From: baloglou at Oswego.EDU (baloglou@Oswego.EDU) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:47 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] cofee In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1232.129.3.132.22.1100467604.squirrel@129.3.132.22> Samuel 'kalamaras' Hassid wrote: > My experience in Cyprus some years ago is asking for a greek coffee, to > hear th cyrpiot kafetzis shout "tourkikon dia ton kalamaran" ... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Many years ago I stopped by a 'traditional' waterfront kafeneion in Limassol, near or in the city's old sector (complete with a few nargiledes, I seem to recall) and requested a vegetable-based breakfast that was not on the menu. A few minutes later my breakfast sandwich-salad arrived, it looked (and was) good, so I said WRAIA -- KAI SY WRAIOS EISAI, replied the old kafetzis ... and grossly overcharged me at the end :-) GB From roilos at fas.harvard.edu Sun Nov 14 14:25:23 2004 From: roilos at fas.harvard.edu (Panagiotis Roilos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:47 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] News from the George Seferis Chair of Modern Greek Studies Message-ID: Dear all, The George Seferis Chair of Modern Greek Studies invites you to the following lecture: Jacques Buchard (McGill University and University of Montreal) "The Early Enlightenment in the Danubian Principalities" Tuesday, Nov. 16, 5:00 p.m., Barker Center for the Humanities (12 Quincy St.), Room 114. Panagiotis Roilos Office tel.: (617) 495-7783 Harvard University Office fax: (617) 496-6720 Department of the Classics e-mail: roilos@fas.harvard.edu Boylston Hall 2nd Floor Cambridge MA 02138 From dkatseto at bellatlantic.net Sun Nov 14 16:19:02 2004 From: dkatseto at bellatlantic.net (Christos D. Katsetos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:47 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Turkey: the Greek minority revisited References: Message-ID: <4197F5F5.20F82B1E@bellatlantic.net> http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=492245 Related link http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/2004-November/004361.html George Baloglou wrote: > http://www.enet.gr/online/online_text?c=110&id=87867532 > > http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=492889 > _______________________________________________ > List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041115/0f689188/attachment.html From gonda at email.arizona.edu Mon Nov 15 11:38:48 2004 From: gonda at email.arizona.edu (gonda@email.arizona.edu) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:47 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] MGSA call for papers, 2 more weeks Message-ID: <1100547528.e8f64c7d09982@www.email.arizona.edu> Please post/distribute: MODERN GREEK STUDIES ASSOCIATION 19th International Symposium Dates: 3-5 November 2005 Location: The Palmer House Hilton 17 East Monroe Street Chicago, IL 60603 tel. 312-726-7500 fax 312-917-1707 http://www.hilton.com/en/hi/hotels/index.jhtml?ctyhocn=CHIPHHH Call for Papers Abstracts for individual papers and proposals for entire panels are invited on any aspect of contemporary Hellenic culture, literature, language, history, society, politics, economics, and the arts. The Program Committee is particularly interested in comparative approaches that place the study of modern Hellenism in its wider geographical and historical context, be it in the Balkans, the Mediterranean, the European Union, global politics, Diaspora culture, past or present history. Interdisciplinary explorations of a single issue from the perspective of different fields across the humanities, social sciences, and the arts are especially welcome. Among the topics that are of particular interest for Symposium 2005 are the following: Greece, Greeks, and Hellenism in the age of transnationalism (borders and migrations, minorities, etc.); Greek-Ottoman history; new developments with respect to Cyprus; assessment of the MGSA and the field of Modern Greek Studies (including possible links between academic and non-academic organizations). All submissions will be judged on the basis of their individual merit. The evaluation process will follow the principles of blind peer review: the Program Committee members shall be informed of the author's identity only after they have made the final selection. The decisions of the Program Committee concerning submitted abstracts and panel proposals are final and are not subject to appeal. Authors of rejected submissions may not resubmit for Symposium 2005. Those wishing to present a paper should submit a typed abstract of 250-400 words, either by mail or via e-mail (to mgsa@kent.edu). The abstract should explain briefly the scope and focus of the proposed topic as well as its broader significance. It should also provide a basic idea of the methodology that the author intends to follow and of his/her qualifications in addressing the topic. Lastly, it should list the author's professional affiliation, postal address, e-mail address, and telephone and fax number(s). If possible, authors should make their audiovisual needs known at the time of submission. They will be asked for final confirmation of audiovisual needs at the time of pre-registration. Proposals for entire panels of 4-5 members should include full abstracts (that follow the above guidelines) and personal information for each of the presenters. In addition, the panel organizer must submit a cover statement of 250-400 words that provides an overall description of the panel's topic and outlines the connections among the individual papers. Panel organizers must ensure that their panel representation reflects equitable gender balance. The Program Committee adheres to a single-appearance policy: participants may submit only one abstract, whether an abstract for an individual presentation or one that is part of a panel. No presentation may exceed 20 minutes. Under no circumstances will papers of absent authors be read by others at the symposium. Symposium participants are expected to cover all their expenses and are therefore encouraged to secure funding before submitting their abstracts or panel proposals. Once their submissions have been accepted, participants will be required to pay the pre-registration fee of US$70. Students will be required to pay a reduced pre-registration fee. Pre-registration for speakers is due 15 July 2005 at the latest. If pre-registration fees have not been received by the mid-July deadline, the Program Committee will cancel the speaker's presentation. Refunds will not be provided in case of cancellation after the pre-registration deadline. The deadline for all submissions is 30 November 2004. There will be no extensions of the deadline. Program Committee members are: Eleni Bastea, Peter Bien, Karen Emmerich, Andreas Kalyvas, Tasoula Karakasidou, Andromache Karanika, Neni Panourgia, Panagiotis Roilos, Lukas Tsitsipis, and Gonda Van Steen (chair). Abstracts as well as inquiries about the Symposium may be submitted either by e-mail or postal service to: Victor Papacosma MGSA Executive Director Kent State University P.O. Box 5190 Kent, OH 44242 Tel. 330-672-7980 Fax 330-672-4025 E-mail: mgsa@kent.edu The Modern Greek Studies Association, founded in 1968, is an American-based, non-profit organization dedicated to the promotion of modern Greek studies in the United States and Canada. It publishes the Journal of Modern Greek Studies (Johns Hopkins University Press) and the MGSA Bulletin. Its publications also include the Census of Modern Greek Literature, 1824-1987 (Dia M.L. Philippides, editor), and Greece in Modern Times: An Annotated Bibliography of Works Published in English (Stratos Constantinidis, editor). Information concerning the Association, including membership, may be obtained from the MGSA Executive Director or from the MGSA website at www.mgsa.org From dkatseto at bellatlantic.net Mon Nov 15 07:03:51 2004 From: dkatseto at bellatlantic.net (Christos D. Katsetos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:47 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Archbishop Demetrios's meeting at the State Department on 11/15/04 Message-ID: <4198C556.B904F2D0@bellatlantic.net> It seems that the scheduled visit of Archbishop Demetrios, Prelate of the Greek Orthodox Church of America and head of the Greek American Omogeneia delegation [1] to meet with Secretary of State Colin Powell was punctuated by "grousouzia". I'm, of course, referring to the fact that the meeting in question coincided with the announcement of Secretary Powell's resignation earlier today. However, the Greek American delegation did in fact meet with Secretary Powell and Under Secretary for Political Affairs Marc Grossman [2]. The following statement was issued in this regard by the Archdiocese [see URL below]: http://www.goarch.org/en/news/NewsDetail.asp?id=1232 C.D.K. Footnotes/links: [1] http://www.in.gr/news/article.asp?lngEntityID=579984 http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=493224 http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=493164 http://www.in.gr/news/article.asp?lngEntityID=579385&lngDtrID=244 http://www.in.gr/news/article.asp?lngEntityID=577991 [2] Below are excerpts from the interview of Under Secretary for Political Affairs, Marc Grossman with CNN T?rk that took place in Washington, DC, on February 14, 2003 [released on February 24, 2003]. ..................................................... QUESTION: Cyprus, lastly. MR. GROSSMAN: Sir. QUESTION: (Laughter.) Cyprus. I mean, the story of our life. MR. GROSSMAN: Right. QUESTION: Is it the third, we are told that third Annan package is coming in. Kofi Annan, Security General is coming into the region and all that. MR. GROSSMAN: Right. QUESTION: Is it last tango? MR. GROSSMAN: (Laughter.) It's hard to say that after all these years working of working on the problem of Cyprus that anything is a last, but I'll tell you what I think. I believe that the period between now and the 28th of February is one of the greatest opportunities for people in Cyprus, Greek-Cypriots, Turkish-Cypriots, and people in Turkey and people in Greece, to honestly, judiciously solve this problem. And I give great credit to the Secretary General and to the people who work for him for pressing and pressing this challenge. And I think what they have accomplished is tremendous. And if you look back to the progress that was made before the Copenhagen Summit and the issues that are now on the table, this can be done. And we absolutely support the Secretary General and all of those forces in Turkey, in Greece, in Cyprus and in the Turkish community on Cyprus to try to get this job accomplished successfully. QUESTION: Do you believe that the Turkish concerns are met with the third package? MR. GROSSMAN: Well, I think the Secretary General has worked very hard to make sure that the concerns of both sides are met here. I mean one of the things, of course, that you and I know best is you're dealing here with President Clerides and Mr. Denktash as two of the greatest negotiators in the entire world. And so it doesn't surprise me and it shouldn't surprise you that they're going to negotiate this thing down to the very end. What I hope will happen is that sometime before the 28th of February they will look at one another and they will say, "We've done the very best we can. It is now time to settle this problem. I have to compromise. You have to compromise. Let's make those compromises and get this job done." Because the vision that we have and that you have of a unified Cyprus entering the European Union, I think it would be a tremendous thing and a tremendous victory for Turkey." [Emphasis with bold font is mine] [Source: U.S. State Department. http://www.state.gov/p/17885.htm Copyright note reads: "Links to Department sites are welcomed. Unless a copyright is indicated, information on the Department of State Web Site is in the public domain and may be copied and distributed without permission. Citation of the as source of the information is appreciated."] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041115/eed16f1d/attachment.html From dkatseto at bellatlantic.net Mon Nov 15 07:29:11 2004 From: dkatseto at bellatlantic.net (Christos D. Katsetos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:47 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Reading between the lines on "realistic adjustments" Message-ID: <4198CB46.5F87FD47@bellatlantic.net> [The commentary below is excerpted verbatim from the on-line English language edition of the Greek daily Kathimerini; for 'fair use' and educational purposes only. Copyright © 2003 the International Herald Tribune All Rights Reserved.] **************************************************************************** Kathimerini -- November 15, 2004 http://www.eKathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_columns_100026_15/11/2004_49512 Commentary Greek weakness and the EU By Costas Iordanidis The government is being heavily criticized over foreign policy issues, whether for unconditionally supporting Turkey's ambitions regarding EU integration or because, 13 years after its foundation, the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM) has been recognized officially by the US as the "Republic of Macedonia." At the same time, a group of self-styled reformists have blamed Prime Minister Costas Karamanlis for not embracing -- as his predecessor Costas Simitis and some of New Democracy's own liberals had -- and not convincing Nicosia to accept United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan's peace plan, which was rejected by 76 percent of Greek Cypriots. Foreign policy appears to be viewed as a parade ground with no relation to the country's military power, its economic condition or the perception by the powers that be of its regional and international role. During the premiership of Costas Simitis, the illusion was created of an economically strong Greece which belonged to Europe's hard core. As it has since emerged, there is now a risk of the European Union questioning the basis on which Greece joined the Economic and Monetary Union. In fact, Greece, as far as its defense and economy goes, has become an ersatz country and therefore lacks the means to exercise an effective foreign policy. Practical considerations aside, there is a lack of morale and vision. After the fall of the dictatorship, the national goal became Greece's incorporation into the European Union, but full integration presupposes the deconstruction of the nation-state, at least in the mind of the Greek political establishment. This is happening gradually in all European Union countries, but they do not have to deal with behavior like that of neighbors such as Turkey or other Balkan states. Greece's EU partners, unwilling to consider the problem Ankara is creating in regional stability, insist on the need for "realistic adjustments." The shortfall in foreign policy in recent years is not greater than that in other sectors of government. It is simply more painful when it becomes apparent, as the repercussions are not reversible. At best, seeking support from the EU will merely result in consoling rhetoric. Greece must defend its own national interests and this presupposes a reassessment of its economy and defense. Simply put, a country's foreign policy is not a metaphysical activity, but a reflection of its strength and standing in the international community. Copyright © 2003 the International Herald Tribune All Rights Reserved ***************************************************************************** Related links Regarding President Papadopoulos's call for direct talks with Turkey ahead of the upcoming EU Summit on December 17th: "The offer was not being taken seriously, a senior Turkish Foreign Ministry official told Agence France-Presse yesterday on condition of anonymity." http://www.eKathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_100006_15/11/2004_49519 Also, of possible interest are Dr. Evangelos Coufoudakis's recent comments on Cyprus and the recognition of FYROM by the U.S, as "Republic of Macedonia." http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=493197 C.D.K. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041115/307d77fa/attachment.html From andronikos at froggy.com.au Tue Nov 16 06:17:21 2004 From: andronikos at froggy.com.au (Pavlos Andronikos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:47 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Greek Cypriots well-informed References: Message-ID: <419A0BF0.609CE791@froggy.com.au> Cyprus Weekly, 16 November 2004 GCs accept federal solution but Annan changes essential By Annie Charalambous MOST Greek Cypriots reluctantly accept the prospect of a federal solution to the Cyprus problem but demand substantial improvements before a new Annan plan could be adopted in a second referendum. This is what a 102-page-long scientific study by political analyst Alexandros Lordos has revealed. snip The study also found that the majority of Greek Cypriots seem to be reasonably well-informed about the Annan plan. Only one in every 20 appears not to know the UN blueprint, at all. From rolandmo at pacbell.net Tue Nov 16 13:29:34 2004 From: rolandmo at pacbell.net (Roland Moore) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:47 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] CFP: Princeton grad student conference on interdisciplinary international studies Message-ID: <20041116212934.31110.qmail@web51004.mail.yahoo.com> Cross-posted from H-SAE: CALL FOR PAPERS Princeton Institute for International and Regional Studies Student Conference April 8-9, 2005 Princeton University http://www.princeton.edu/~gradconf/ Bridging Disciplines, Spanning the World: Approaches to Identities, Institutions and Inequalities Keynote Speaker: Charles Tilly Joseph L. Buttenwieser Professor of Social Sciences at Columbia University This conference offers an opportunity for graduate students pursuing scholarship in international and regional studies to move beyond the disciplinary boundaries that structure our approaches and thoughts, and to engage in inter-disciplinary interaction and conversation on a range of salient political, social and epistemological issues. The panels will focus on the following topics: Inequalities through Time · Social inequalities · Welfare state development · Economic justice - global and domestic pursuits Transitions and Institutions · What is an institution? · Institutional change and challenges · States and societies in transition - regime change, rapid social change Identity, Ideas & History · Idea diffusion · Re-thinking identity · Use and mis-use of historical examples · Conceptualizing boundaries Please submit abstracts of 400-500 words online at www.princeton.edu/~gradconf by December 16. Abstracts should specify methodological approach, with the goal of communicating to inter-disciplinary audiences, and include a short bibliography (not included in word count). Questions can be sent to gradconf@princeton.edu. -- Soliciting papers from graduate students in anthropology, economics, international law, history, sociology, political science, and philosophy -- Limited number of travel grants offered -- Publication of papers will be considered by the Princeton Institute for International and Regional Studies From dkatseto at bellatlantic.net Tue Nov 16 02:02:43 2004 From: dkatseto at bellatlantic.net (Christos D. Katsetos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:47 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Jacques Chirac: "We are All Children of Byzantium" Message-ID: <4199D042.8999E4E7@bellatlantic.net> http://www.hurriyetim.com.tr/haber/0,,sid~381@nvid~496873,00.asp http://www.zaman.com/?bl=international&alt=&trh=20041117&hn=13867 http://www.milliyet.com.tr/2004/11/16/siyaset/asiy.html http://www.radikal.com.tr/veriler/2004/11/16/haber_134469.php C.D.K. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041116/208755a8/attachment.html From gondicas at Princeton.EDU Tue Nov 16 14:18:48 2004 From: gondicas at Princeton.EDU (Dimitri Gondicas) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:47 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Princeton Hellenic Studies Workshop - Friday, November 19, 2004 Message-ID: <009f01c4cc2a$3e9fcf90$f7e17080@princeton.edu> Princeton University Program in Hellenic Studies Workshop Construction of a Myth: The Rediscovery of the Icon of Christ (Mandylion) in Edessa Irma Karaulashvili ikaraula@princeton.edu Post-Doctoral Fellow, Program in Hellenic Studies RESPONDENT: Emmanouel Papoutsakis, Department of Near Eastern Studies The narrative about the Edessan icon of Christ "not made by human hands" (acheiropoietos) constitutes a part of the apocryphal legend of King Abgar, the ruler of the city of Edessa. According to the generally accepted view, the story of the icon appears already in the sixth and seventh centuries in the writings of Byzantine historians. This view is conditioned by the "emergence of acheiropoietai in the context of the sixth-century warfare in Syria and on the borders between Byzantium and the Sassanian empire." According to my hypothesis, the full version of the story as presented in one of the versions of the apocryphon, the Epistula Abgari, appears even earlier, in the course of the fifth and sixth centuries. The earliest reference to the icon in historical writings was connected with the Persian siege of Edessa (544A.D.) and, in scholarly works, with the discovery of the icon inside the walls of the city. An investigation of this earlier tradition in Byzantine literature, connecting the discovery of the icon with the siege can help clarify the question: did the icon's motif emerge first as a palladium of Edessa, or was the story of the icon's miraculous origin there first? _____ Irma Karaulashvili holds an undergraduate degree in Armenian Studies from the Department of Eastern Languages of Tbilisi State University, Georgia, and an M.A. degree in Medieval Studies from the Central European University in Budapest, where she earned her doctorate in June 2004. Her dissertation was a study of an apocryphal text of the New Testament, namely the group of writings related to the earthly life of Christ, in particular the period before Crucifixion. She currently works on texts pertaining to the Abgar legend, and studies Greek and Syriac original versions of the apocryphon, together with its various renditions in different languages, including the Ancient Greek, Georgian and Armenian manuscripts. Irma Karaulashvili has served as a researcher at the K. Kekelidze Tbilisi State Institute of Manuscripts of the Georgian Academy of Sciences. Friday, November 19, 2004 2:30 p.m. Humanities Program Building, Room 103 _____ The HELLENIC STUDIES WORKSHOP provides an opportunity for post-doctoral fellows, visiting fellows, and graduate students to present their work-in-progress or recently published research. The aim is to encourage exchange of ideas across disciplines among Classical scholars, Byzantinists, and Modern Greek Studies specialists. DATES: Most Fridays, 2:30-4:00 p.m., during the term. Dates, speakers and titles will be announced in advance via e-mail. PLACE: Room 103, Humanities Program Building, Princeton University For further information about current events in Hellenic Studies, please refer to the calendar posted on our website: http://www.princeton.edu/~hellenic/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041116/a0fad4ac/attachment.html From baloglou at Oswego.EDU Tue Nov 16 22:19:54 2004 From: baloglou at Oswego.EDU (George Baloglou) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:48 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] "trying to get into nearby European Union countries..." Message-ID: Are we going to conclude that those responsible for the unthinkable murder *and* defamation of a few Asian desperados felt vindicated by the recent US decision to recognize FYROM as "Republic of Macedonia"? Truth may be stranger than fiction*, and timing may shamelessly conspire towards conspiracy theories, see http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4014187.stm (where Greece is an anonymous "nearby European Union country") :-( *"Prosecutors say the three former police officials and a businessman arranged the deaths to enhance Macedonia's standing in the war against terror" -- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4014187.stm From mh348 at cornell.edu Wed Nov 17 05:44:47 2004 From: mh348 at cornell.edu (Maria Hnaraki) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:48 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] http://www.iht.com/articles/2004/11/15/features/song2.html Message-ID: <1543.132.236.149.118.1100699087.squirrel@132.236.149.118> From baloglou at Oswego.EDU Wed Nov 17 22:14:36 2004 From: baloglou at Oswego.EDU (George Baloglou) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:48 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] "Gebelia" (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 00:17:33 -0500 (EST) From: George Baloglou To: Byzantine Studies Discussion Forum Subject: "Gebelia" Another 'timely' piece of news, this time from yesterday's National Herald (NYC), which I just read: In the recently published "Al Yunanein: Greeks of Egypt, giants submerged in sand", author Dimitris Alexandrou devotes a chapter to the Beduins of the St. Catherine monastery. I knew of them, and had noticed the mosque inside the monastery, but I didn't know that they were Greek-speaking: they are descendants of 200 families from Pontus and Alexandria posted there by Justinian to guard the monastery; they converted to Islam in the 7th or 8th century but preserved their tongue! [Rather surprised, the author queried the porter about his Greek, and the response was "Ma Romios eimai kyrie ... Romios Gebelia" ("Why, I am Greek sir ... Gebelia Greek").] "Gebelia" means "mountainous". It occurs to me now that I missed a chance to chat in Greek with the tea-serving Beduin atop Mt. Sinai back in 1987! GB From baloglou at Oswego.EDU Wed Nov 17 22:13:48 2004 From: baloglou at Oswego.EDU (George Baloglou) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:48 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] http://www.iht.com/articles/2004/11/15/features/song2.html In-Reply-To: <1543.132.236.149.118.1100699087.squirrel@132.236.149.118> References: <1543.132.236.149.118.1100699087.squirrel@132.236.149.118> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Nov 2004, Maria Hnaraki wrote: [see URL in title] Fabulous! I believe I have mentioned my own experience with APO KSENO TOPO KI' AP' ALARGINO, if not on list, certainly to you personally, and to Ed Emery as well, and there was no response whatsoever. Specifically, I heard the song being performed in both Greek and Turkish -- in parallel rather than in succession -- at the Thessaloniki International Fair in 2000 ... and found the Turkish version to be more genuine or powerful (probably because it was sang by an old Anatolian Greek who grew up with it)... And many years earlier I had heard it, like everybody else in Greece, I suppose, from Mariza Koch... And this summer I found it in a CD of Mikrasiatika distributed for free with Sunday's "Vima"... Anyway, it might be significant that the Greeks consider it to be from Asia Minor... [Its story: a twelve-year girl arrives from a distant and alien land, and never appears on the alley or her doorstep or window; "come on, daughter of seashore, shining star, come out on your window to hear my words, give me that mole on your neck".] GB From adamidco at shu.edu Wed Nov 17 11:45:25 2004 From: adamidco at shu.edu (Constantinos Adamides) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:48 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Attempt for Direct flights to "TRNC" collapses In-Reply-To: <2D53AA81-0364-11D9-8EFE-00039386D67A@free.fr> Message-ID: http://www.phileleftheros.com/main/main.asp?gid=136&id=291312 The AA management announced that it is not interested in cooperating with any Turkish Airline for direct flights to the occupied area of Cyprus. Regards, C. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041117/98e682f0/attachment.html From lthoma at otenet.gr Thu Nov 18 02:47:00 2004 From: lthoma at otenet.gr (Lamprini Thoma) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:48 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Britain on the Cyprus problem Message-ID: <015501c4cd5b$f75000f0$0300a8c0@JOURNALIST2> For those who thought that the Annan plan was "the last chance", that Turkey was the "winner" etc etc. L. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041118/83176caa/attachment.html From LYNGOS at aol.com Thu Nov 18 08:11:57 2004 From: LYNGOS at aol.com (LYNGOS@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:48 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] "Gebelia" (fwd) Message-ID: In a message dated 11/18/04 08:06:03 Pacific Standard Time, baloglou@Oswego.EDU writes: > [Rather surprised, the > author queried the porter about his Greek, and the response was "Ma Romios > eimai kyrie ... Romios Gebelia" ("Why, I am Greek sir ... Gebelia Greek").] > > "Gebelia" means "mountainous". It occurs to me now that I missed a chance > to chat in Greek with the tea-serving Beduin atop Mt. Sinai back in 1987! > > GB > More Greek Vlachs...................:))))) Regards to all.............L. George Sofoklis Tsapanos Visalia, Ca. "Vlachs, the autochthonous of the Hellenic peninsula". -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041118/8e696b54/attachment.html From despoina at atp.gr Thu Nov 18 10:16:25 2004 From: despoina at atp.gr (Despina Christodoulou) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:48 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Greek Cypriots well-informed In-Reply-To: <419A0BF0.609CE791@froggy.com.au> References: <419A0BF0.609CE791@froggy.com.au> Message-ID: Amazing that "most Greek Cypriots" only now "reluctantly accept" the prospect of a federal solution - they've had nearly 30 years to get used to the idea! If they don't like the idea of a federal solution, then they should have come out and said this decades ago instead of pretending that they supported United Nations efforts at finding a solution. But perhaps we will only have another 30 years to wait until these "most Greek Cypriots" reluctantly decide exactly what the changes they so emphatically "demand" to the Annan Plan are. Because so far none of the people who have been aggressively complaining about what they don't like in it have ever made any effort to tell us what they would actually like to see in it instead! In any case, around 95% of the time, the things that people complain about in the Annan Plan are not actually in the Annan Plan! I personally know very many people who claim to be well informed regarding the Annan Plan and even supposedly cite the bits they find so offensive. But when asked to say exactly which page or article these offensive sections are at, they are completely incapable of doing so. And when you present them with the actual text on the particular issue that they are claiming to be so well informed about and they see that in this actual text it says something very different from what they were so convinced it said, they get embarrassed and just ignore the actual text and then start mumbling all sorts of contradictory and incomprehensible things. So perhaps we do need another 30 years for these "most Greek Cypriots" to begin to "reluctantly accept" that they are presently talking nonsense about the Annan Plan and that their faith in the potential of Cyprus's membership of the European Union to get a "better" solution is completely misplaced. On the other hand, maybe the forthcoming events of 17 December will be enough of a reality shock for them that they will soon start to realise that they either have to "reluctantly accept" the Annan Plan (please, if you demand changes tell us what they are and how they will be viable and long-lasting!). Because the only other option - once Turkey gets a date and the whole Papadopoulos pseudo-strategy begins to unravel even in the eyes of its rabid supporters - will be the gradual de jure division of the island. Because our European partners are not going to wait around for the Greek Cypriots to finally decide exactly what it is that they want to demand before they start to help the Turkish Cypriots to get out of the wretched situation that they are in - a wretched situation that will increasingly be blamed on the Greek Cypriots. Despina Christodoulou >Cyprus Weekly, 16 November 2004 > >GCs accept federal solution but Annan changes essential > >By Annie Charalambous > >MOST Greek Cypriots reluctantly accept the prospect of a federal >solution to the Cyprus problem but demand substantial >improvements before a new Annan plan >could be adopted in a second referendum. > >This is what a 102-page-long scientific study by >political analyst Alexandros Lordos has revealed. > >snip > >The study also found that the majority of Greek Cypriots seem to be reasonably >well-informed about the Annan plan. Only one in every 20 appears not to know >the UN blueprint, at all. >_______________________________________________ >List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l From despoina at atp.gr Thu Nov 18 10:16:25 2004 From: despoina at atp.gr (Despina Christodoulou) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:48 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Commissioner's Comments on Papadopoulos govt. censorship of Verheugen Message-ID: A couple of interesting snippets from Commissioner Chris Patten during last night's debate in the European Parliament on European funding to the Turkish Cypriots (which is to be distributed through the European Agency for Reconstruction and not through the Republic of Cyprus, as Papadopoulos had fantasised). The officials of the European Union are still of the opinion that the Greek Cypriot voters were not given fair and unbiased "information" on the Annan Plan by the Papadopoulos government and the EU has certainly not forgotten the shameful censorship of Commissioner Verheugen. The EU still fully supports the Annan Plan, but feels that conditions are not right for a new international initiative (presumably conditions will only be right when Papadopoulos is no longer President). Any new initiative, however, will not be undertaken by the EU - the EU will only support (as it supported Annan's efforts). Despina Christodoulou http://www2.europarl.eu.int/omk/sipade2?PUBREF=-//EP//TEXT+CRE+20041116+ITEM-009+DOC+XML+V0//EN&L=EN&LEVEL=3&NAV=S&LSTDOC=Y&MODE-CRE=SEARCH&DETAIL=2-088 "Finally, I do not wish to make my last remarks in this Parliament into the beginning of a hot controversy. However, I would just say to the honourable Member who said that he wished Mr Verheugen, my distinguished colleague, had been able to state the advantages of the Annan plan more vigorously, that Mr Verheugen would have loved to do so, but when he tried in Cyprus, he was stopped. That is a matter of record and was not the happiest episode in this tale. It would have been better all round if during the course of the referendum campaign he had been able to say in Cyprus what he believed the advantages of the Annan plan were. It might have been that he would have given a more balanced view than some of the letters sent out by the government. I very much hope that we can have this debate in as calm a way as possible. I hope that all sides of the argument will be heard reasonably." At an earlier point in the debate, Patten also stated: "As for the solution to the Cyprus problem, the conditions still do not exist for a new international initiative. In my view the Annan Plan remains the only realistic basis for a comprehensive settlement. Concerning its possible role in any new process aimed at a settlement, the Commission remains ready to support efforts towards a settlement that would permit a reunified Cyprus to be fully integrated into the European Union." http://www2.europarl.eu.int/omk/sipade2?PUBREF=-//EP//TEXT+CRE+20041116+ITEM-009+DOC+XML+V0//EN&L=EN&LEVEL=3&NAV=S&LSTDOC=Y&MODE-CRE=SEARCH&DETAIL=2-066 From iioannou at hbs.edu Thu Nov 18 07:57:36 2004 From: iioannou at hbs.edu (Ioannis Ioannou) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:48 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Why are we losing our friends? Message-ID: http://www.politis.com.cy/cgibin/hweb?-A=504249&-V=politiki&-w=&-P ????? ??????? ???? ?????? ???; ?????, ???? ? ??????? ??????????. ? ??????? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ??????????? ?? ??????, ? ?????? ???? ??? ??????? ??? ????????, ??? ????? ???? ?.?. ?????? ????? ??????????? ?????? ???. ??????, ???? ?? ??????? ????. ??? ?? 1974 ???? ???????? ??? ?????????? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ??????????? ?????, ?? ????????? ??????????, ?? ????????? ??? ??? ???????????? ??? ???. ??? ?? 1974 ????????????? ??? ??? ?? ?????????? ???????????? ??? ????????, ????? ??????? ???? ??? ?????????? ?? ?????????????. ??????, ?? ??? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ????????? ????????? ??? ????????? ??? ?? ???????? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ???????????????. ????? ????????, ???? ? ?????? ???? ??? ??????. ? ????????? ????????????? ?????? ????. ? ??????? ??? ????? ????? ?? ???? ??? ??????? ????????, ? ??????? ??? ?????? ?????? ????????? ???? ??? ???????. ?????? ???? ? ?. ???? ????? ? ????????????? ??? ??????? ??? ??????????? ??? ????????????? ??? ???????????? ??? ??? ??????????? ????????? ????????. ?????? ?? ???? ??? ???????! ?? ????????????? ????? ???? ?? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ???. ? ????????? ?????? ????????????, ?? ??????? ??????? ???????????? ???? ??????????? ????? ????????, ??????????? ??? ??????? ??? ??????. ????? ????? ???? ? ????? ? ??????????; ???? ????? ?????, ????? ??? ??? ??????? ??? ??????????? ??? ???????? ?????????? ??? ??? ?????????; ?? ??? ????? ???? ?? ???????????? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ???, ????? ???? ?????? ?? ???????? ????? ??? ??? ?. ???????, ??? ?? ??????? ??? ????? ???? ?? ??? ??? ??????; ???? ? ??????????, ??? ????? ???????? ???????? ??? ?? ?????????, ??? ?????? ?? ????????????. ???? ????? ?? ???? ???????? ?? ???????????? ??????? ?? ?? ??????? ??? ?????????? ??? ??? ??????????. ???? ??? ??????????? ?????? ????? ? ?????????? ??????????? ????????? ??? ? ???????? ??? ?? ?????????? ??? ????????. ???????????? ????????? ???????? ??? ?? ?????????????? ???? ?????? ???. ??? ?????????? ????????, ????? ??? ????????? ??????????. Ioannis Ioannou Doctoral Student PhD Business Economics Harvard Economics Dept and Business School Boston, MA 02163 www.businessdoc.org www.people.hbs.edu/iioannou "At bottom every man knows well enough that he is a unique being, only once on this earth; and by no extraordinary chance will such a marvelously picturesque piece of diversity in unity as he is, ever be put together a second time." Friedrich Nietzsche From iioannou at hbs.edu Thu Nov 18 11:20:06 2004 From: iioannou at hbs.edu (Ioannis Ioannou) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:48 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Referendum Study Message-ID: Recently in this list, there was an email with regards to a study by Alexandros Lordos related to the Cyprus Referendum. Some bits and pieces of the study were in the news. I have an electronic copy of the 82-page survey and if anyone is interested, I can send it. Personally, I did not have the time to read it yet. Best, Ioannis Ioannou Doctoral Student PhD Business Economics Harvard Economics Dept and Business School Boston, MA 02163 www.businessdoc.org www.people.hbs.edu/iioannou "At bottom every man knows well enough that he is a unique being, only once on this earth; and by no extraordinary chance will such a marvelously picturesque piece of diversity in unity as he is, ever be put together a second time." Friedrich Nietzsche From ash04 at aub.edu.lb Fri Nov 19 00:43:54 2004 From: ash04 at aub.edu.lb (Alexander Hourany) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:48 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] "Gebelia" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1100853834.419db24ad94b3@imail.aub.edu.lb> > In the recently published "Al Yunanein: Greeks of Egypt, giants submerged > in sand", author Dimitris Alexandrou devotes a chapter to the Beduins of > the St. Catherine monastery. I knew of them, and had noticed the mosque > inside the monastery, but I didn't know that they were Greek-speaking: > they are descendants of 200 families from Pontus and Alexandria posted > there by Justinian to guard the monastery; they converted to Islam in the > 7th or 8th century but preserved their tongue! [Rather surprised, the > author queried the porter about his Greek, and the response was "Ma Romios > eimai kyrie ... Romios Gebelia" ("Why, I am Greek sir ... Gebelia Greek").] > > "Gebelia" means "mountainous". It occurs to me now that I missed a chance > to chat in Greek with the tea-serving Beduin atop Mt. Sinai back in 1987! Those Gebelia or Jibaliyyah seem to pass unnoticed for modern scholars although their history is a very unique one. It seems that they were always mistaken for Bedouin Arabs which lead scholars to classify them under this category. There was one Greek book which was written about the history of the monastery and of these Gebelia, it was published in the 19th or 18th c., but I didn't manage to check it. However, I information about these people are to be found in Greek and Arabic documents of the Sinai monastery, some of which I checked. One Arabic manuscript from the monastery (which I read and which I will try to publish with an English translation), from the 17th or 18th c., says that these people were slaves brought by Iustinianus from Wallachia [sic], and that they were given by the emperor to the monastery to protect it from the raids of the Saracens and to serve it. In fact in the documents of the monastery they are usually refered to as slaves. In Arabic, they are called: 'abid al-dayr = slaves of the monastery; and in Greek: sklaboi. The same Arabic manuscript says that the servile status of these Gebelia was always confirmed by the Muslim rulers even when they converted to Islam later. Moreover, they preserved their identity by staying separate from all surrounding people although they followed the customs of the Bedouin Arabs at the end. I doubt that they speak Greek; that one who replied in Greek: "Ma Romios eimai kyrie ... Romios Gebelia" betrays the modern Greek language which he must have learnt from the Greek-speaking monks. As for "Romios Gebelia", this needs further research. From lthoma at otenet.gr Fri Nov 19 02:26:44 2004 From: lthoma at otenet.gr (Lamprini Thoma) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:48 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Britain for Cyprus II Message-ID: <016b01c4ce22$44928740$0300a8c0@JOURNALIST2> A diplomatic attack, it seems. L. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041119/0626f5cf/attachment.html From baloglou at Oswego.EDU Fri Nov 19 09:30:36 2004 From: baloglou at Oswego.EDU (George Baloglou) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:48 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] "Gebelia" In-Reply-To: <1100853834.419db24ad94b3@imail.aub.edu.lb> References: <1100853834.419db24ad94b3@imail.aub.edu.lb> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Nov 2004, Alexander Hourany wrote: > [snip] > > Moreover, they preserved their identity by staying separate from all > surrounding people although they followed the customs of the Bedouin Arabs at > the end. I doubt that they speak Greek; that one who replied in Greek: "Ma > Romios eimai kyrie ... Romios Gebelia" betrays the modern Greek language which > he must have learnt from the Greek-speaking monks. Perhaps. But think of the two groups, isolated Greek-speaking Gebelia and not-so-isolated Greek-speaking monks ... over the centuries: at the very beginning their Greek was one and the same (save for dialect differences); later there were monks, born and raised elsewhere and therefore exposed to contemporary Greek, influencing the Gebelia's old Greek to considerable extent. The important question is what language the Gebelia speak among themselves: if it's some Arabic or Beduin dialect, then Greek is for them just a foreign language; if it's Greek, is it some kind of fossilized Greek or naturally evolving Greek influenced by the monks' learned Greek? Thanks, GB From gondicas at Princeton.EDU Fri Nov 19 16:05:22 2004 From: gondicas at Princeton.EDU (Dimitri Gondicas) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:48 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Princeton Hellenic Studies Events Message-ID: <00d201c4ce94$a157bd20$f7e17080@princeton.edu> PRINCETON UNIVERSITY Program in Hellenic Studies http://www.princeton,edu/~hellenic/ Dear colleagues, students, and friends: In lieu of our regular workshops next week, we have organized two informal events on the Athens 2004 Olympics. You are cordially invited. Sunday, November 21, 6:30pm Screening: Athens 2004 Opening Ceremony (approx. 90mins.) Discussion will follow Please bring your own dinner and drinks Monday, November 22, 6:00pm Presentation: Athens 2004 "Catch the Light: Routes Through Athens" Speaker: Petros Babasikas *02 web site: http://www.athens2004.com/en/OlympicLookOfAthens Petros Babasikas received an M.Arch. (2002) from the School of Architecture at Princeton and worked for the Athens 2004 Organizing Committee, designing and organizing the "Catch the Light" installations and events around the city during the Olympic Games. He is currently based in Athens. Light dinner and drinks will be offered. Looking forward to seeing you. Happy Thanksgiving to all, Dimitri Gondicas Dimitri Gondicas Executive Director Program in Hellenic Studies Princeton University http://www.princeton.edu/~hellenic/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041119/0c4589a9/attachment.html From LYNGOS at aol.com Fri Nov 19 11:55:30 2004 From: LYNGOS at aol.com (LYNGOS@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:49 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] "Gebelia" Message-ID: <19f.2bf8f0d7.2ecfa9b2@aol.com> In a message dated 11/19/04 07:19:47 Pacific Standard Time, ash04@aub.edu.lb writes: >One Arabic manuscript from the monastery (which I read and which I will try to> >publish with an English translation), from the 17th or 18th c., says that these>> >people were slaves brought by Iustinianus from Wallachia [sic], and > thatthey were given> > by the emperor to the monastery to protect it from the raids ofthe Saracens and to serve it. > And here are your *Vlachs* and *not* Wallachians my dear Alexander. It is a shame that many, scholars included, are translating the Hellenic word "Vlaxos-Blaxos" as Wallachian, after people that didn't even exist in today's Romania before the turn of the 15th century A.D., a word denoting geographic origins, responcible for many mis-understanding with regards the Vlachian past. Justinian had in his service one of the oldest Roman Legions made out of Makedonians since the times of Julius Caesar, that Fifth Roman Legion, after which some of the Vlachs, especially the ones living in old Serbia and F.Y.R.O.M., are known as *Tsintzari* (from the Latin-Italian "Cinque=Five".) Justinian as well as Heraclius had in their services many of these Latin-speaking Makedonians, and with them the Empire was patrolling its remote areas. I wrote before about the origins of the un-explainable to the Neo-Hellenes *Stin Kokkinh Mhlia* (to the red apple tree) and its meaning, (defining the finis of the empire). Only Latin-speaking populations in the service of the Emperors, could have known of the Red Sea and leave the legacy of their arrivals in there for the mystified Neo-Hellenes of the achivements of the *genos*. Poor Neo-Hellenes, since they didn't know where the Red Sea was, known as *Mare Rosso* in Italian, *Mare Rubrum* in Latin-Roman, and *Mare-Arosie* in the Vlachian language, they thought that those Latin speaking populations allegorically were speaking of the Red Apple Tree, known as *Mer-Arosiu*, you see..........plenty of Red Apple trees in Greece, the Neo-Hellenes knew of them. And, equally they couldn't explain the *mountainous* people, that we left behind to guard our *Kokkines Mhlies*. Do these not so much "Wallachians"make sense to you now Alexander? Regards to all...............L. George Sofoklis Tsapanos Visalia, Ca. "Vlachs, the autochthonous of the Hellenic peninsula". -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041119/36df73cf/attachment.html From dkatseto at bellatlantic.net Fri Nov 19 17:16:28 2004 From: dkatseto at bellatlantic.net (Christos D. Katsetos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:49 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Commissioner's Comments on Papadopoulos govt. censorship ofVerheugen References: Message-ID: <419E9AEB.4D31D341@bellatlantic.net> Despina Christodoulou wrote: > A couple of interesting snippets from Commissioner Chris Patten > during last night's debate in the European Parliament on European > funding to the Turkish Cypriots (which is to be distributed through > the European Agency for Reconstruction and not through the Republic > of Cyprus, as Papadopoulos had fantasised). The officials of the > European Union are still of the opinion that the Greek Cypriot voters > were not given fair and unbiased "information" on the Annan Plan by > the Papadopoulos government and the EU has certainly not forgotten > the shameful censorship of Commissioner Verheugen. The EU still fully > supports the Annan Plan, but feels that conditions are not right for > a new international initiative (presumably conditions will only be > right when Papadopoulos is no longer President). Any new initiative, > however, will not be undertaken by the EU - the EU will only support > (as it supported Annan's efforts). > > Despina Christodoulou > > http://www2.europarl.eu.int/omk/sipade2?PUBREF=-//EP//TEXT+CRE+20041116+ITEM-009+DOC+XML+V0//EN&L=EN&LEVEL=3&NAV=S&LSTDOC=Y&MODE-CRE=SEARCH&DETAIL=2-088 > > "Finally, I do not wish to make my last remarks in this Parliament > into the beginning of a hot controversy. However, I would just say to > the honourable Member who said that he wished Mr Verheugen, my > distinguished colleague, had been able to state the advantages of the > Annan plan more vigorously, that Mr Verheugen would have loved to do > so, but when he tried in Cyprus, he was stopped. That is a matter of > record and was not the happiest episode in this tale. It would have > been better all round if during the course of the referendum campaign > he had been able to say in Cyprus what he believed the advantages of > the Annan plan were. It might have been that he would have given a > more balanced view than some of the letters sent out by the > government. I very much hope that we can have this debate in as calm > a way as possible. I hope that all sides of the argument will be > heard reasonably." > > I am afraid that we have a clear conflict of interest problem here. Simply put, it is no secret that EU External Affairs Commissioner Chris Patten, now Lord Patten, is an outspoken opponent of referenda on principle and thus the basis of his criticisms (Cyprus included) can be hardly considered as being without prejudice. Lord Patten's well-known diatribes are even used by Wilkipedia as a precedent of dialectic opposition to the referendum process in the context of "criticisms from representative democracy" [sic!]: "I think referendums are awful... they were the favourite form of plebiscitary democracy of Mussolini and Hitler. They undermine Westminster [parliament]. What they ensure, as we saw in the last election, is if you have a referendum on an issue politicians during an election campaign say oh we're not going to talk about that, we don't need to talk about that, that's all for the referendum. So during the last election campaign the euro was hardly debated. I think referendums are fundamentally anti-democratic in our system and I wouldn't have anything to do with them. On the whole, governments only concede them when governments are weak (BBC, 2004)." [Excerpted verbatim from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendum Copyright (C) 2000, 2001, 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc. Disclaimer: Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies of this license document, but changing it is not allowed.] With all due respect, Chris Patten, who is carrying a good deal of political baggage at home, including in his own backyard, the troubled region of Ulster (Northern Ireland) to which he is no stranger, should be the last person to criticize the government of the Republic of Cyprus for transgressions related to the April 24 referendum. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/3965499.stm In fact I wonder whether an astute politician of Chris Patten's caliber truly believes that the "ill-informed" Greek Cypriots might have been effectively persuaded to vote in the affirmative had "his distinguished colleague, Mr. Verheugen been able to state the advantages of the Annan plan more vigorously"? If so, Lord Patten should use the Cyprus case as a precedent for strategic planning in his own referendum campaign (vide infra). BTW, it seems to me that after his decision not to run for the EU presidency, Lord Patten should pay more attention to the mounting EU-related problems at home. To this end, he should explain to the British public (in his new capacity as a peer in the House of Lords and as the favored person-in-charge of the feeble 'YES' campaign in Britain) why "referendums are fundamentally anti-democratic in our system" and why he "wouldn't have anything to do with them." That is a bit haughty, I must say, especially in anticipation of the future referendum in the UK on the EU Constitution. In the meantime, eurobarometer polls in Britain suggest a resounding 'NO' trend, which approaches the astounding figure of 75%, indicating that the Brits -unlike the Cypriots, the Greeks, or the Irish for that matter- are the least happy members of the European Union family. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/3656793.stm But in Britain's case there is still plenty of time for a decisive reversal of this troubling trend. And so, as a matter of record I have a suggestion to make: Perhaps Lord Patten along with his Europhile peers and his former commoner colleagues (MPs and MEPs), should actively engage the charismatic Commissioner Verheugen in their 'YES' campaign ahead of the future referendum on the EU Constitution. In light of the important lesson learnt in Cyprus, G?nter Verheugen should be afforded the opportunity to state vigorously to the British people the advantages of a 'YES' vote for the EU Constitution. In fact, one of the proactive actions envisaged in this campaign is to doube Verheugen's allotted air time on BBC television. C.D.K. > > List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041120/195d8949/attachment.html From AKarpathak at aol.com Sat Nov 20 09:43:26 2004 From: AKarpathak at aol.com (AKarpathak@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:49 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Fwd: [acad-research-freedom] Modern Greek Collection at the Univ. of Cincinnati Message-ID: <8d.1a52c80e.2ed0dc3e@aol.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "jianniotis" Subject: [acad-research-freedom] Modern Greek Collection at the Univ. of Cincinnati Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 16:03:52 -0000 Size: 16974 Url: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041120/6e519806/attachment.mht From Philobiblos at fastermac.net Sat Nov 20 10:11:12 2004 From: Philobiblos at fastermac.net (J S Philobiblos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:49 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Commissioner's Comments on Papadopoulos govt. censorship ofVerheugen In-Reply-To: <419E9AEB.4D31D341@bellatlantic.net> Message-ID: On 11/20/04 3:16 AM, "Christos D. Katsetos" wrote: > With all due respect, Chris Patten, who is carrying a good deal of political > baggage at home, including in his own backyard, the troubled region of Ulster > (Northern Ireland) to which he is no stranger, should be the last person to > criticize the government of the Republic of Cyprus for transgressions related > to the April 24 referendum. > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/3965499.stm > A propos of political baggage, it is interesting that the Englishman Mr. Patten is lecturing the Greeks of Cyprus on democratic procedure, though it must be added that he is consistent in his disdain of referenda. It was just such British disdain that denied the Cypriots the freedom of political choice after the referendum of the early 1950s, no doubt because they were ill informed... For this reason too the British encouraged the Turkish intervention during the same period, so that by their departure they left behind the legacy of strife, for the consequences of which the Cypriots and all of Hellenism are still paying. And while on the subject of the EU and transgressions, is not Britain the only member of the EU family to have been found guilty of torture of political prisoners by the European Court of Human Rights? Turkey is not yet a member, but enjoys a similar record. This fact offers an insight into commonalities between the British imperialist and Turkish fascist attitudes towards... the European acquis. Given their own record and that of their cultural context, how dare these people lecture on what is and is not politically appropriate, especially when it comes to dealing with issues that have an existential impact for the people of Cyprus. It is simply sad that there is a small if vocal minority among the Greeks that seeks legitimacy from the imperialists with regard to the mode of surrender to the Kemalist fascists. Aristide Caratzas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041120/ca4a0c71/attachment.html From cvrhasd at techunix.technion.ac.il Sat Nov 20 23:19:58 2004 From: cvrhasd at techunix.technion.ac.il (Samuel Hassid) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:49 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Referenda References: <419E9AEB.4D31D341@bellatlantic.net> Message-ID: <00da01c4cf9a$81ebbd40$65804484@cv.technion.ac.il> I do not find anything contradictory towards Chris Paten's opposition to Referenda in a country where borders, parlamentarism and democracy are well established (his comments on Hitler and Mussolini are superfluous - but are not essential on his argumentation) and his attitude towards the referendum of Cyprus. There is something else in Dr. Katsetos' posting though which is far more relevant : The Northern Ireland Agreement, although also based on a referendum, also collapsed at some stage - which brought the province under direct London rule. What happens if the Annan Plan collapses - this is something that indeed does not appear anywhere in teh Anna Plan as far as I know - and indeed I am not that well informed as some others in the list. All one will be left with are the guarantor countries, especialy one ... And even a very sketchy knowledge of Cyprus history indicates that this is NOT a purely theoretical possibility. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041121/b315b235/attachment.html From ed.emery at britishlibrary.net Sun Nov 21 07:06:17 2004 From: ed.emery at britishlibrary.net (Ed Emery) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:49 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Rebetiko @ SOAS Seminar - Friday 26 November 2004 - 6.00pm to 9.00pm Message-ID: <00eb01c4cfdb$e2780380$7dc828c3@universitas> Dear Colleagues of the MGSA list, I attach below the programme for our November "Rebetiko @ SOAS" seminar. With rebetological greetings, Ed Emery ++++++++++++++++ Our next Friday Evening Seminar on the Rebetiko music of Greece will be held at the School of Oriental and African Studies [SOAS], Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square, London WC1H 0XG (Nearest tube Russell Square) on Friday 26 November 6.00pm-9.00pm Location: Room G50 [Main Building, Ground Floor] Our monthly seminars are held on the last Friday of every month. The November seminar will include the following elements: >> TABAHANIOTIKA - THE CRETAN REBETIKA << Theo Lais will offer a historical view of the Rebetiko scene in Crete, focussing on particular songs of the tradition. The songs will be presented in live performance. The overall structure will include: * History and origin of the musical idiom including references to the "Peiraiotika" school of rebetika, and Tountas in particular. * Main composers and performers, renditions of traditional songs/ original compositions, lyrics (topics and analysis), links to Smyrneika (the case of "Oso Varoun ta Sidera"). * Instrumentation and musical vocabulary (rhythms, modes/makams). Theo Lais plays laouto and saz. He currently performs with the group Troia Nova. He is also preparing for a teaching-diploma in guitar. >> REBETIKO CRETE: ARTICLE BY YANNIS ZAIMAKIS << The presentation will be prefaced with notes from a study of Cretan Rebetiko written by Yannis Zaimakis. >> THE AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF MARKOS VAMVAKARIS << As part of the run-up to our June 2005 London conference entitled "Homage to Vamvakaris", Ed Emery will present further material from the autobiography of Markos Vamvakaris. All welcome. Bring an instrument. Bring a voice. Bring a dance. Bring yourself. Admission to these seminars is free, but a financial contribution would be welcomed. PLEASE NOTE: The DECEMBER SEMINAR is scheduled for Friday 31 December 2004, which is New Year's Eve. We are organising a Rebetiko New Year's Eve Party. Admission is open to all, and if you want to join the guest list please e-mail rebetiko@soas.ac.uk. Next year's HYDRA REBETIKO CONFERENCE [Island of Hydra, near Athens, 13-16 October 2005] will be on the topic of "Rebetiko and Politics, and the Politics of Rebetiko". Papers are invited. The conference is open to all interested parties. Details will be posted at the Institute of Rebetology website at www.geocities.com/Rebetology. From riedelbs at rice.edu Sun Nov 21 10:34:05 2004 From: riedelbs at rice.edu (Brian Riedel) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:49 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] sexuality and the myths of a nation Message-ID: continuing in the thread of conversation about broadly distributed Greek opinions of and reactions to same-sex sexuality, Alexander's non-military exploits are again a point of friction. http://www.365gay.com/newscon04/11/111904Alexander.htm b. From ash04 at aub.edu.lb Sun Nov 21 09:09:23 2004 From: ash04 at aub.edu.lb (Alexander Hourany) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:49 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] "Gebelia" In-Reply-To: References: <1100853834.419db24ad94b3@imail.aub.edu.lb> Message-ID: <1101056963.41a0cbc3222fc@193.188.128.122> > Perhaps. But think of the two groups, isolated Greek-speaking Gebelia and > not-so-isolated Greek-speaking monks ... over the centuries: at the very > beginning their Greek was one and the same (save for dialect differences); > later there were monks, born and raised elsewhere and therefore exposed to > contemporary Greek, influencing the Gebelia's old Greek to considerable > extent. The important question is what language the Gebelia speak among > themselves: if it's some Arabic or Beduin dialect, then Greek is for them > just a foreign language; if it's Greek, is it some kind of fossilized Greek > or naturally evolving Greek influenced by the monks' learned Greek? > > Thanks, > > GB Well, as slaves or serfs of the monastery in the time of Justinian, their langauge should have been Greek, the language of the state and the common language of the monastery. Now, although genetically isolated from the Bedouin Arabs of Sinai, they couldn't but get the cultural influence of these Bedouin Arabs. Islamization will add to this cultural influence because these Bedouin Arabs are the only source of Islamic culture to them. Anyway, in the documents of the monastery they appear with Islamic Arabic names most of the time. But, as servants of the Greek-speaking monastery they cannot but learn this language naturally. From iioannou at hbs.edu Sun Nov 21 06:27:49 2004 From: iioannou at hbs.edu (Ioannis Ioannou) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:49 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] An Article Message-ID: http://www.politis.com.cy/cgibin/hweb?-A=504902&-V=politiki&-p&-w= ??? ?? ?????????? ?????? ??? ???????? ???????? ?? ?????? ???? ?????????? * H ?????? ?????? ???????? ??? ??????? ???? ??? ??????????? ??? 24?? ???????? ??? ?? ????? ?? ????? ??? ??????. ?? ???? ???? ???????????? ???????? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ???????? ??? ???????? ??????? ??? ??????????: ? ???????? ???? ??????????????/?????????????? ??????????? ?? ???????? ??? ?????? ?? ?????? ???? ?????????? ??? ??????????? ??????????? ????????? ?? ????????? ???? ????? ??? ??????? ???????????/?????????. ?? ????? ????? ? ?????????? ?????????????? ??? ??????? ??? ??????????? - ?????????????? ??? ?????? ??????????? ???? ? ??????? ?????????? ???????????, ? ????????? ???? ?? ????????????? ?????????, ? ?????????? ??? ?????? ??? ???????? ??????????? ???. ?? ??????? ??????????? ??????? ???? ?? ????? ?? ?? ????? ??????????? ??? ?????? ?????????? ??? ?????? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ????????? ??? ?????? ?? ???????????? ?? ??????? ?? ?????? ???????? ??? ?????. ????? ???? ?????? ??? ????????? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ???????????, ??? "?????????????????" ??? ??? "?????????????/???????????", ??? ?? ?????? ??? ???????????? ??????????? ??????????? ?????. ???? ????? ??? ?????? ? ????????? ?????????????, ???? ??????????? ?? ???????? ????? ??????????? ??????????. ??? ????????????, ???? ? ???????????????? ?????????? ??????, ???? ?????? ??? ??????????? ??? ?????? ???????? ??? ?????????? ????????? ???????. ??????, ??????, ?? ????? ??? ??????????? ??????????? ??? ???????? ??? ?????????? ???? "???????????????" ???????? ???????????????? ??? 19?? ????? ? ???? ????????????????? ???????????????? ??? ??????? ????????????? ????????. ????, ??? ??? ???? ?????, ? "??????????/????????????" ?????????? ??????, ???? ??????? ??? ??? ?????????? ???? ?????????? ??????????. ??????? ?? ??? ????????? ???? ?? ????????? ??????? ??? ??????? ? ??? ?????? ?? ??????????? ?? ??????????? ??????? ??? ???? - ????? ??? ???? ????????? ???? ???? ??? ? ???????????? ???? ?? ??????? ?????? ??????? ?? ???????? ?? ?????? ??? ??????????? ?? ?????? ???????? ??? ?????. * H ???????? ??? ?????????? ??? ???? ??? ??? ?????????????, ???? ?????? ?? ???????????? ??? ???????? ????? ??? ?????????? ?????????????? ????, ?? ????????? ??? ???????????????? ????????? (????? ???? ??? ???????? ??? ?????? ??? ?????????????) ????? ????? ??????? ??????????. ?? ??? ?????????????? ?????????? ?? ???????? ???? ????????? ??? ???????????. H ??????????? ??? ????????? ?????? ????? ???? ???? ??? ? ????????????? ??????????? ??????????? ???????? ?? ?,?? ????? ??? ???????????? ??? ??????? (????? ?? ?,?? ????? ?? ???????? ??? ?????????) ?? ???????? ???? ???????? ??? ?????????? ??? ??? ?????. ???' ??? ????, ? ??????????? ??????????? ??? ????????? ??? ??????? ?? ?????????? ??? ???, ??? ??????? ?? ?????????? ??? ??????????? ????? ??? ???? ??? ??? ??????? ?????????????? ??? ????? ???????????????? ?????? ?????????? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ???? ?? ?? ??????? ???????????? ??? ???? ??? ?????????. ???? ?????? ??? ? ???? ???????????? ???????????? ??????????, ??? ?????? ???? ??????? ??????? ????, ??????? ?? ?????????? ???? ??????????? ??????? ??? ??????. ???????? ?? ???????? ?????? ??????? (??? ???????? ?? ?????? ????????) ???????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ? ???????? ?? ???????? ?? ?????????? ??? ?? ?????? ?????????? ?????? - ??????, ???? ??????? ??? ?? ?????? ????????? ??? ????????? "?????????? ??? ??????????". ??????????? ???? ? ?. ??????????, ???? ?? ??????????? ??????, ???? ?? ?????? ?? ??????????? ?? ?????? ??? - ?????? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ?????? ?????????? ??? ?????????? ?????? ??? ?? ?????? ??????????. ??? ?????? ??? ?????????? ???? ????? ???????????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ????????? ???? ??? ??? ?????? ??????????? ??? ??????????? ???????, ??? ?????? ??????. (? ??????????, "??????? ??? ???????????", ??????? ??' ?,?? ???????? ?? ????????? ????? ??????? ??? ??!) * ????? ??? ??????? ?? ???????? ????????? ??? ???????? ?????????, ??? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ??????????? ???????? ????????? ???????????????? ??? ??????????? ???????????? ???? ??????? ??????? ??? ????????? ??????. ???? ??????? ???, ???? ?? ????????? ?? ?????????? ??? ?? ??????????? ??? ????? ?????, ??????? ???? ?????? ???. ??? ?????????? ?????? ?? ?????? ???? ?????????? ?? ?????? ????????? ????????? ??? ?? ?????? ???? ??? ??????? ?? ?????? ?????????? ??? ??????? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ??????? ?? ?????????. ?????????? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ?????? ????????? ??? ?? ?????? ???? ????????? ??? ????????????? ???? ???? ??? ??????? ?? ?? ??????????? ?????? "????????? ??? ????? ?????" ??? ?? "????? ???????". ?????????? ?? ?????? ??? ??????? ???????? ??? ? ???????? ??? ??????? ???? ?? ????????, ???? ??? ? ???????? ??? ???????? ??????? ??? ??????????, ?? ?????????? ??? ?? ???????? ??? ?? ?????????????? ?????? ?????????? ??????, ???? ??? ??????? ??? ???????????????? ?????? ?? ?? ???? ????????. * H ????????? ??? ?? ???? ???????? ???? ?? ???????? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ??????????????? ???? ???????????? ?? ??????????? ??? ??????? ??? ??????? ?? ????? ??????????? ??? ??? ???????? ?????????? ??? ????? ?????????????? ?????? ?????? ??? ??? ?????????????. ??? ???? ? ????????? ???????? ????????????? ?? ?? ???????? ??? "? ????????? ???? ?????????? ??? ????? ????? ???????????". ?? ??? ?? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ???? ?? ???? ??????????? ??? ????????????? ???? ??? ?? ???? ??????????? ??? ??????? (?? ?????? ??? ??????????? ??? ??? ??????? ??? ????? ?? ??? ??????? ??? ??? EE ?? ?? ???? ??? ???????????? ???????) ???????????. ????, ???? ?????????? ??? ???????? ???? ??? ? ????????? ?????? ??? ???????? ???? ??? ????????? ??????????? ???? ?? ???? ??? ???????????????? ???? ??????? ???? ?? ??????? ?????? ????? "???" ??? ????????????, ??? ???? ???????? ??? ??????? ??????? ????? ??? ?? ???????????? ????????? statemanship. ???????? ?????? ??? ????? ???????????????, ?????????? ????????? ??? ??????? ??? ?????????? ??????? ??? ?????? ???????? ?? ??? ????????????/???????????? ??? ?????????? ???? ??? ????? ??? ????????? ("????????" ??? ???????? ??? ????????? ????, ?????? ???????, ?????? "???????" ??????? ??? ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??????? ???? ???.) ??? ?? ??????????? ??? ???? ???????: ? ?????????? ???????????/?????????? ??? ?????? ?????? ?????????????? ??? ??? ??????????? ??? ?????? ??? ????????? ???????, ??? ????????????? ??? ??? ?????????? ??????????. ?? ???????? ??????? ?? ?????????? ???, ?? ???????????? ??? ?????, ? ?. ?????????? ???? ?? ??????? ?? ????? ????????? ??????????? ??? ???????????? ?? ???? ??? ????? ???????? ??? "???". ???? ?? ????? ? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ?????????? ??? ?????? ??????; * H ?????? ??? ???? ??? ???????? ? ???? ????????? ????????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ?? ?????????? ????? ??? ??????????????? ????????? ????????? ????????? ??????????? ???????????. H ?????? ??? ???? ???????? ????? ?? ???????????? ??? ????? ?????????????? ????????? ?? "???" ??? ?? "???". ???? ?? "???" ???? ??????? ???? ????? ????? (??????, ??? ???????? ?????????), ?? ???? ??????? ????????????????? ????? ?? "???" ???????????? ?? "???" ?? ?? ??????????? ??????? ???????? ??? ??????????????. ?? ??? ?? ???? ????? ?? ??? ??????? ??? ??? ?????? ??????? ??? ?? ???? ???????? ??? ??? ???????? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ????????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ???????, ???? ? ?????? ????? ??? ??????????? ???????? ??? ??? ?? ???????? ???? ??????? ?????. ??? ?? ???? ????? ????????????. ????, ?? ???? ????? ? ??????? ??? ?????????????? ????????? ???? ?? ????? "???????? ??? ???????? ??? ?????????????", ??? ???????? ??? ???????? ?????????? ????????? ???????????? ?? ???? ?????????????? ??? ?????????????? ???????? ??? ??? ??????? ??? ??????????????. ??? ???? ??? ??????????? ?????? ??? ?????? ??????????? ???????? ??? ????????? ??????? ??? ??? ??????? ?? ???? ???? ??? ?????????, ??? ????????? ??? ?????? ???????????? ?????? ?? ???????? ??? ??????????? ???? ?????? ??? ?????? ??????. * ? ???????? ???????????? ?????, ??? ????? ??? ?? ?????????? ??? ????????????? ???????? ??? ???????? ????????? ??? ??? ??????????? ??? ???? ??? ??? ??. ???????? ?? ??? ??????????, ??? ??? ?????? ??????? ???? ??????? ???????? ??? ??????? ????, ????? ???? ??? ??????? ???????? ??? ?????????. ???? ??????? ??? ??? ???????? ?????? ???? ???????? ????????????. ???????? ? ??????????????? ???????? ??? ????????? ??????????? ??? ???? ??? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ?? ????????? ?? ?????? ??? ???. ????????? ???? ???? ??????????? ??? ?????????? ??? ??? ????? ?????????? ??? ?? ?????? ?? ????????? ???? ??? ??????????? ??? ????????. ???? ???? ??? ??????, ??????????? ?? ???????? ??? ????????? ??? ??????? ??? ???? ???? ??????????????????? ???????? ??? ?????????????? ???. ?? ??? ? EE ??????? ?? ?????????? ???? ?????? ??? ????????? ??????????? ?????? ???? ?? ??????????? ??? ????????? ??? ??? ??????????????? ??????? ??? ?? ??????? ?????? ?????????? ?????????? ??? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ?????? (?????? ?? ????? ? ??????? ???????? ???????? ?? ?? ??????) ??? ????????? ????? ??? ?. ??????????? ??? ????????? ?? ????????? ???? "?????????????". ????? ??? ?????? ???? ? ??????????? ????????? ?????? ?? ????? ???????? ???? ???? ??? ???????? ??? ?????????? ???????????, ??? ??????? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ??????? ??? EE. ????? ? ??????????? ???????? ??? ??????? ???????? ??? ?????? ??????????? ???? EE, ???? ? ?. ???????????? ????? ??? ? ??????? ???????????? ?? ??????? ????? ?????? ??? ????????? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ?????? ??? 1? ?????. flasaki * ?????? ???????????? (?) ??? ?????? ????? ??? ????????? ?????? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ??????????????? ?????? ???????? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ??????????? ??? ?????? ??????. (?) ???? ? ????????, ??????????, ????? ??????????????? ????? ????????? ????? ?? ?? ??????????? ??????????????? ??? ??????? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ?????. ????????? ?????? ?? ??? ??????????? ???? ?????????? ?????????? ??? ??? ?????? ?? ????????????????? ?????????. (?) H ?????? ?????? ???????? ??? ??????? ???? ??? ??????????? ??? 24?? ???????? ??? ?? ????? ?? ????? ??? ??????. ?? ???? ???? ???????????? ???????? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ???????? ??? ???????? ??????? ??? ??????????: ? ???????? ???? ??????????????/?????????????? ??????????? ?? ???????? ??? ?????? ?? ?????? ???? ?????????? ??? ?? ???? ????, ?????? ?? ?????? ???????? ???????? ?? ?? ?????? ?????????? ??? ??? ??????? ??? ??? ?????????????. (?) ?? ??? ?????? ????????? ??? ?? ?????????? ?? ??? ?????????? ??????????. ?? ???????, ? ?????? ??? ??? ?????????? ??? ?????????? ?? ????????? ??? ???? ???? ?? ???. ?? ?? ???????? ??????????????, ??? ?? ?????? ?????. ?? ?????? ?? ??????????? ???????, ?? ?????????? ?????????????, ?? ????????? ?????????. ???? ?? ??? ????????? ?? ?????????????? ?? ????? ??? ????????????? ??? ????????? ????????????? ????, ??? ?? ????????????? ?????????????? ?? ??????????? ??????? ?? ????? ?????? ???????????? ?????????????. ? ?. ????? ???????? ????? ????????? ??? London School of Economics. ?? ????? ??? ????? ??????? ????? ?????????????? ?????????. ???????????? ???? 25 ???????? ??? 2004 ????? ?? ??????? ???? ???? ???????????? ??????????? ?????? ??? ?? ????????. ?????? ??? ? ??? ????????? ???????? ??? ??????? ??????? ??? ????????????? ???????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ??????? ?? ???????? ??? ?????? ??? ????????? ?????? ????. ????????? ?????? ?? ?????? ?? ???????? ??? ?? ????????. ?????? ?? ???????? ???????? ???? ???????????? ????????????? ??? ?? ???? ??????????? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ????????? ???????? ??? ?????? ?? ?????????? ?? ??????? ?? ????? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ?? ??? ??????? ?? ??????? ??? ??? ???????. ????????? ??? ???????? ?????????, ??? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ??????????? ???????? ????????? ???????????????? ??? ??????????? ???????????? ???? ??????? ??????? ??? ????????? ??????. H ?????? ??? ???? ???????? ????? ?? ???????????? ??? ????? ?????????????? ????????? ?? "???" ??? ?? "???". ???????? ? ??????????????? ???????? ??? ????????? ??????????? ??? ???? ??? ??? ???? ????? ??????? ?? ????????? ?? ?????? ??? ???. ??? N???? ???????* Ioannis Ioannou Doctoral Student PhD Business Economics Harvard Economics Dept and Business School Boston, MA 02163 www.businessdoc.org www.people.hbs.edu/iioannou "At bottom every man knows well enough that he is a unique being, only once on this earth; and by no extraordinary chance will such a marvelously picturesque piece of diversity in unity as he is, ever be put together a second time." Friedrich Nietzsche From dkatseto at bellatlantic.net Sun Nov 21 04:59:45 2004 From: dkatseto at bellatlantic.net (Christos D. Katsetos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:50 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Commissioner's Comments on Papadopoulos govt.censorship ofVerheugen References: Message-ID: <41A09140.BCD54FBD@bellatlantic.net> J S Philobiblos wrote: > On 11/20/04 3:16 AM, "Christos D. Katsetos" > wrote: > > With all due respect, Chris Patten, who is carrying a good > deal of political baggage at home, including in his own > backyard, the troubled region of Ulster (Northern Ireland) > to which he is no stranger, should be the last person to > criticize the government of the Republic of Cyprus for > transgressions related to the April 24 referendum. > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/3965499.stm > > A propos of political baggage, it is interesting that the Englishman > Mr. Patten is lecturing the Greeks of Cyprus on democratic procedure, > though it must be added that he is consistent in his disdain of > referenda. It was just such British disdain that denied the Cypriots > the freedom of political choice after the referendum of the early > 1950s, no doubt because they were ill informed... For this reason too > the British encouraged the Turkish intervention during the same > period, so that by their departure they left behind the legacy of > strife, for the consequences of which the Cypriots and all of > Hellenism are still paying. The events of the 1950s and the political underpinnings of the Cyprus question in the post- colonial context are not merely of historical interest. On the contrary, they are part of an unfolding history. Along these lines, it is worth recalling that the events in Cyprus had coincided with a highly charged and dangerously inflamed political atmosphere in Istanbul culminating in the infamous September 1955 pogroms. Quoting from the editorial by distinguished historian Professor Speros Vryonis Jr., titled "Eye on History: September 6, 1955 Krystallnacht in Constantinople": "... The chronology of the pogrom falls in a very difficult period, when the Cyprus problem had complicated the political relations of Greece, Turkey and England. The Turkish press, which was to play a crucial role in preparing the political atmosphere of the pogrom, received significant financial support from British sources. Specifically, the British gave financial assistance to two Turkish newspapers and to their owners/editors: to Hikmet Bil (editor of the newspaper Hurriyet and leader of the political organization Kibris Turktur -- Cyprus is Turkish), and Ahmet Emin Yalmas, owner of the older Istanbul paper Vatan. Trips by these two journalists to London had become prominent in 1954-55. In 1952, the Turkish government had mobilized two large student organizations. By July 1955, the Turkish press and these organizations activated intense pogroms and demonstrations aimed at the defenseless Greek minority in Istanbul. The tripartite discussions, among Greece, Turkey and England, commenced in London in August of 1955. On the 27th of that month, the Turkish press condemned the Patriarch, ostensibly for collecting funds for the Greek Cypriot movement for Enosis with Greece. Three days later, on August 30, the anniversary of the day when the Kemalist forces smashed the Greek line in western Asia Minor, the Turkish press launched a particularly vile attack on the Patriarch. Previously, on the 27th, the Istanbul newspapers published false rumors that the Greeks of Cyprus were planning mass genocide of the Turkish Cypriots. Finally, on September 5, one day prior to the pogrom, Turkish student organizations asked permission from the authorities to stage political demonstrations in Istanbul regarding Cyprus, to be staged on September 13. Also on September 5, the Turkish prime minister?s executive council, which included the minister of the interior in charge of security, the governor of Istanbul, and the chief of police, among others, met to discuss the petition and the situation more generally. It should be noted that prior to the tripartite meetings in London, it is generally accepted that the British government asked that the Turks stage a public demonstration on Cyprus, inasmuch as this would strengthen the Anglo-Turkish position against that of the Greeks during the tripartite meetings." http://www.greekamerica.net/pastissues/7-1/eyeonhistory.wu [Excerpted from Speros Vryonis Jr. "Eye on History: September 6, 1955 Krystallnacht in Constantinople" posted on GreekAmerica.net; for 'fair use' and educational purposes only ? 2001-2003. Cosmos Communications, Inc. All rights reserved.] C.D.K. Related links (From an eyewitness' perspective of a Constantinopolitan Greek) Leonidas Koumakis _The Miracle: A True Story_ translated in English by Pat Tsekouras http://www.greece.org/genocide/books/miracle/ http://www.greece.org/genocide/books/miracle/p1-70.htm (From the perspective of a Turkish journalist) See Huseyin Bagci's commentary "Remembering 1955: A 'Black Day' in Turkish History" in the Turkish Daily News http://www.turkishdailynews.com/past_probe/09_13_98/foreign.htm#f3 > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041121/f35d2393/attachment.html From gondicas at Princeton.EDU Mon Nov 22 08:34:29 2004 From: gondicas at Princeton.EDU (Dimitri Gondicas) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:50 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Princeton Hellenic Studies Fellowships Message-ID: <007201c4d0b1$2368dc40$f7e17080@princeton.edu> PRINCETON UNIVERSITY Program in Hellenic Studies http://www.princeton.edu Dear Colleagues, I bring to your attention the announcements and applications for our Hellenic Studies post-doctoral fellowships and visiting fellowships, academic year 2005-2006: http://www.princeton.edu/~hellenic/fellowships.html. Please share our fellowship announcements with colleagues, and kindly forward the above link to qualified candidates. With all best wishes, Dimitri Gondicas VG: f/ Dimitri Gondicas Executive Director Program in Hellenic Studies Princeton University http://www.princeton.edu/~hellenic/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041122/ec6eb8ff/attachment.html From rolandmo at pacbell.net Mon Nov 22 15:37:09 2004 From: rolandmo at pacbell.net (Roland Moore) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:50 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Job: Tenure-track Asst. Prof., Greek Language and Literature, Stockton College Message-ID: <20041122233709.79017.qmail@web51009.mail.yahoo.com> GREEK LANGUAGE AND LITERATURE -- September 2005, Tenure-track Assistant Professor ($43,377-$49,886). Salary may be higher depending upon qualifications, experience and increases in the appropriately established compensation plan. Teach courses in modern and classical Greek language and literatures. Teach courses in History or Literature of Hellenism (ancient, Byzantine, modern) and courses in the General Studies curriculum. Teaching load is six four-hour courses per year. Ph.D. required with college-level teaching experience preferred. Specialization in Modern Greek language (with native or near-native fluency) and literatures with strong background in classical Greek and Greek history. Send letter of application with teaching philosophy, C.V., and three letters of recommendation to Kenneth Dollarhide, Applications will be reviewed starting December 1 and continue until the position is filled. Dean of Arts and Humanities, AAxx, Richard Stockton College of New Jersey, PO Box 195, Pomona, NJ 08240-0195. Stockton is an AA/EOE. Addendum: Fred Mench, Professor of Classics writes: I will not be at the Chicago meeting,, but I will be at the Amer Philological Assn meeting in Boston Jan 7-9 and would be happy to interview anyone there. From andronikos at froggy.com.au Tue Nov 23 03:07:55 2004 From: andronikos at froggy.com.au (Pavlos Andronikos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:50 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] The Diplomacy of the... Wise Message-ID: <41A31A08.CE377757@froggy.com.au> http://www.simerini.com.cy/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=171682 ? ??????????... ??? ????? ?OY ?IANNOY XAPA?AM?I?H OI A???OAMEPIKANOI ?????????? ?? ??? ?????????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ???????? ?? ???????? ??? ????????. ??? ??????? ????????. ??? ??? ?? ??????, ??? ?? ?? ?????????, ??? ????? ?? ????????? ??? ????????, ? ??????, ???? ?? ???????? ???? ??????, ???? ???? ??? ???????: ??? ?????? ??? ??????? ??? ???? ??????. ???????, ??? ?????? ???? ????????? ??? ??????? ????. ??? ?? ????? ????? ?? ??????????? ???????. ????? ??? ???????? ??? ????????? ?? ??????????? ??? ?????? ??? ??????????? ?? ????: ?????, ??? ?? ??? ??????? ????? ??? ?? ????? ????????? ??? 76% ??? ?????????????, ??? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ????. ??? ??? ????, ?? ??????? ??? ?? ?? ????????? ???????, ????? ??? ???? ????????????? ?????? ??????? ? ?????????? ???? ??? ?????????? ????? ??? ??? ???????????????? ??? ??????? ????, ???????? ??????? ?? ????, ???????????? ??? ?????, ?? ???????????? ??? ? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ????????? ?? ???? ???????? ??? ?????? ????? ? ????? ????, ???? ?on the basis?, ?????? ??? ???? ???. ??? ??????? ???????? ?? ????? ??? ???????? ??????????. ??????????? ? ??????????? ??? ??????? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ??????? ?? ???????? ????? ?????. ??? ??? ??????? ?? ????????. ??? ???? ???????? ??? ?????. ??? ?? ??????? ??? ????? ????? ??? ???? ?????????? ??????? ??? ???. ??? ?????? ?? ??????????? ?... ?????. ??? ?? ?????????? ???? ??? ????????? ??? ??????? ????. ???????, ??? ?????? ?? ??????? ??????? ?? ??????? ??????? ??? ?? ????????. ??? ??????????? ?? ??????? ???????? ??? ????????? ???????????. ??? ????, ???????????? ?? ????????? ??? ???????????? ??? ??????, ??? ?????? ?? ???????? ???????? ?????????, ???? ? ????????? ????, ? ?????? ????????? ??? ????????? ???????????? ??? ? ????????? ??? ?????????? ??????????? ??? ???????, ????? ??? ? ?????????????? ??? ???????. ?????, ????, ?? ?????? ????? ????? ??????????????. ?????? ???????! ?? ?? ??????, ?????? ????? ??? ???????????, ???? ?? ??????, ?????????? ?? ???????. ??? ???????????? ?? ????????? ?? ????????. ??? ?? ?????????? ???? ????? ??? ??????? ???????? ?? ?? ?????? ????. ??????, ???????, ????? ??? ? ??????????? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ????, ???? ?? ????????????? ?????? ????. ??? ??????????? ?????. ??? ???? ??????????. ?????, ?? ???? ??????????, ?? ?????? ?? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ????????. ??? ??? ????? ????, ????? ????? ??????? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ???? ??????????. ??? ???????? ???????? ?? ????????????. ? ??????????? ??? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ????: ?? ????????? ??? ????????? ??? ?? ????????? ? ??? ??????? ?? ?????????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ?? ?????. ??? ??? ?????, ??????????? ??? ??????????? ????... ????? ?? ????? ????????? ?????????????? ??? ???? ???... From andronikos at froggy.com.au Tue Nov 23 03:08:07 2004 From: andronikos at froggy.com.au (Pavlos Andronikos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:50 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Everything is done... Message-ID: <41A31A15.B96300E8@froggy.com.au> TURKISH PRESS AND OTHER MEDIA No.223/04 20-21-22-11.04 [B] COMMENTARIES, EDITORIALS AND ANALYSIS [08] Turkish Cypriot columnist criticizes Gul's statements that Turkey did everything in Cyprus and that the Cyprus problem is over for Ankara Mehmet Levent, writing in his daily column in Turkish Cypriot daily AFRIKA newspaper (22.11.04) criticizes the statements of the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Abdullah Gul that Turkey did everything in Cyprus and that the Cyprus problem is over for Ankara. Mr Levent writes the following: "Abdullah Gul said that 'everything is done and over in Cyprus from our point of view'! Is the restoration of the constitutional order of the Republic of Cyprus which has been violated among the things that were done and over? No it is not! Is the demand of all the rights of the Turkish Cypriots in the Republic of Cyprus, deriving from the international agreements (among the things that were done and over)? No it is not! Is the decrease of the 40 thousand military forces in order to put an end to the occupation of Northern Cyprus (among the things that were done and over)? No it is not! Is putting an end to the illegal transfer of population and the withdrawal of this population which changed the demographic structure of the Turkish Cypriots and assimilated them (among the things that were done and over)? No it is not! Is the return of their political will to the Turkish Cypriots that is seized and occupied (among the things that were done and over)? No it is not! Is the political, economical and legal recognition of the Republic of Cyprus which is a full member of the EU (among the things that were done and over)? Is the signing of a Customs Union agreement with the Republic of Cyprus which (Turkey) has included in its Customs Union (with the EU among the things that were done and over)? Not it is not! In spite of all these, Mr Abdullah says that 'everything is done and over in Cyprus from our point of view'! That is, these statements mean that Turkey has no intention of realizing anything from the above-mentioned things! Given that everything is done and over, no one of these issues is on Turkey's agenda! While the Greek Cypriots are unilaterally destroying their own land mines, not even getting rid of the land mines and opening new gates is on Turkey's agenda! That is the way it is. Given that everything is done and over, it means that the issue is closed! It means that all these which we mentioned above are among the issues that will not be done and over! Saying that 'everything is done and over in Cyprus from our point of view', means nothing else but saying that 'the Cyprus problem is solved from our point of view'. The point we have reached is a new act of the scenario of America, the first stage of which lasted 30 years. The name of this period is Varnished Status Quo. It is just like the transition from the Stone Age to the Neolithic Age! No one now in Northern Cyprus believes that the isolation will be lifted and the direct trade and flights will begin. Those who are saying this and write unbelievable nonsense and lies such as 'Britain is Determined' on the titles of the newspapers, are lying to the people looking straight in their eyes! I am sure that after Abdullah Gul's statements no one will any more ask 'what is going to happen now' or 'what is going to happen from now on'. Because, what is done is done! 'Everything is done and over in Cyprus from Turkey's point of view'! Did you not like what happened? Well, this is your business! Is anyone preventing you?" From andronikos at froggy.com.au Tue Nov 23 03:08:17 2004 From: andronikos at froggy.com.au (Pavlos Andronikos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:50 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Hiding behind a gun... Message-ID: <41A31A1E.46D0FC41@froggy.com.au> http://www.hamamboculeri.org/ Yeralt? Notlar?, 21 Kas?m 2004 Sevg?l Uluda? Hiding behind a gun, a uniform and `orders`!?(*) Sevgul Uludag History is not the glorious stuff they have been teaching us at school. It is not about the `heroes` fighting the `barbarians`, it is not about the `poor Cypriots` and how the `outsiders` committed crimes against them. History is about us, ourselves, our adventures, the untold stories, the tragedies we?ve been going through, the traumas we had to encounter, the unspeakable truths that we keep locked up inside us ? because most of these stories don?t actually `match` what is written in history books or it would not look nice to say these things? It would be `inappropriate` to talk about them publicly, but they are there, killing us slowly, eating our souls away, turning us into people pretending that `everything is all right now` when it is not. History is about a village when in 1974, the priest and his daughters could not or did not escape from the church. They became hostages? One young Turkish Cypriot, now barely 35, remembers them? `They were making announcements each night in the village? They were calling to the men to go to the church? `Those who want to rape the daughters of the priest, come now!` they were saying. My father was angry and was telling me to get inside the house and remain there? 30 of them, 40 of them would go to rape the girls inside the church? They kept the priest there to watch? Now no one pointed a gun to their heads to do this. These were the ordinary men of the village that you see every day? Later the Red Cross or some other organization came to the village to take the girls? The girls were brought outside on stretchers, they were covered in blood and they were taken away? I remember those announcements, people going round the houses and saying, `Who wants to come tonight?` Now if we told these stories, imagine how a 10 year old boy who loves his chubby grandfather and finds out that in fact he had been part of the raping of the girls in the church, would feel? How his world will be crushed if he finds out that in fact his grandfather had killed 7 or 8 persons?.` He speaks clearly because he?s telling me untold stories, the unspeakable truths, things you would not hear from the local history teacher or a politician? When people speak to me like this, it is also like some kind of `treatment` for them ? the truths they have kept locked up for 30 years, 40 years, things they could not tell to others, even to their closest ones? His story has parallel lines with what Panicos Neocleous told me about the raping of a young Turkish Cypriot girl in Trachonas back in 1964, how at gunpoint, four other Greek Cypriots raped her and how they told him `It is your turn now` but Panicos left, in protest: `We came to protect our country, not to do this!` he said and left Trachonas, not returning to the army again, until in 1974? The young Turkish Cypriot of almost 35, tells me of how once upon a time in the long forgotten past, when some Turkish Cypriot soldiers used to kill, they would also cut the ears off and collect them. `You know how it is with hunting? You can still see in some old houses or coffee shops in the villages, the ears of the rabbits that the hunters cut off? It was like this at that time?` No I don?t know anything about the rituals of hunting, so he tells me more? `Hunters used to like to boast to each other about how big the rabbit was so they cut off the ears and hang them on the wall for everyone to observe and admire!` Has this ritual changed or is it the same? Were the killers showing ears to each other to prove that `they had killed more, in the name of their country`? Were they `under orders` to cut off ears? Did they boast that they had `more ears` than the others? Isn?t it sick, our history? Another young girl remembers the captured Greek Cypriots who were kept in the village club? `They were maybe around 100 of them? They were brought in groups from different villages. From time to time, they would take some of them and beat them up in a grain cellar. They would kill the ones they had beaten up that same night. We would know this because an old village bus would come to take them away and a bulldozer would follow? They would pass in front of our house so the whole village would know that some of them were being brought to be killed and buried? Amongst the 100 or so, my father had a good friend ? he was a very good Greek Cypriot who always helped Turkish Cypriots? My father would bring him cigarettes and would give these to him from the window of the village club. They tried to save him but I think it was impossible, he was also killed? I was a very young girl then but I remember these, the passing of the bulldozer and the old village bus?` `And who were doing these beatings and killings?` I ask her, `Who were burying the ones who were killed?` Her answer is clear: `They were under orders!` Perhaps this is the key word ? a gun, a uniform, orders? Hiding behind a gun, a uniform, hiding behind orders, perhaps our history is the history of cowardice ? of the level of our humanity, of threatening, beating, raping, killing and burying in the name of `our country`. Losing our humanity on the way, going to such low levels that it is almost unspeakable now? But history is also about the human courage of quitting the army in protest of the rape of a young girl, like Panicos did. Perhaps this is rare but all good things have become very rare in Cyprus? No good crying over them but learning from good and bad examples and teaching our children what the Cypriots were `capable` of, teaching them to shed away the `uniforms` in their brains, shedding away `the orders`, or doing things `in the name of their country`. Questioning `orders, uniforms, guns`, questioning the motives of anything that comes with the `power of a gun`? Perhaps the best history lesson would be to teach them what to do in the name of humanity, instead of `in the name of our country`? (*) Article published in ALITHIA newspaper on the 21st of November, 2004. copyleft (c) 2001-04 hamamboculeri.org From mkliro at sfsu.edu Tue Nov 23 11:14:04 2004 From: mkliro at sfsu.edu (mkliro@sfsu.edu) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:50 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Rhigas' maps In-Reply-To: <20041117201649.4905B26674@maillists.nac.uci.edu> References: <20041117201649.4905B26674@maillists.nac.uci.edu> Message-ID: <1101237244.41a38bfcc8fa3@webmail.sfsu.edu> I wondered if any of our list members could suggest relevant sources on the topic of Rhigas Pheraios' maps of Greece? A student of ours in geography would like to do some research in that area. Many thanks, Martha Klironomos From JUNESAM at aol.com Tue Nov 23 12:32:21 2004 From: JUNESAM at aol.com (JUNESAM@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:50 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Rhigas' maps Message-ID: <20.38bff207.2ed4f855@aol.com> I wondered if any of our list members could suggest relevant sources on the topic of Rhigas Pheraios' maps of Greece? A student of ours in geography would like to do some research in that area. ------------------------- Martha, Some possoble contacts and resources belo w June S ---------------------- 1] In English the main book is Woodhouse, C.M Rhigas Velestinlis : Proto-Martyr of the Greek Revolution Limni,Evvia,Greece: Denise Harvey Soft Cover. New Book from Greece. Rhigas Pheraios (1757-1798) of Velestino in Thessaly, help foster the patriotism which led the Greeks to revolt from Turkish domination. Pbk. ISBN: 9607120094 (i can send a copy of this if needed) --------------------------- 2] Hellenic Cartographic Society P.O. Box 1644 GR - 541 24 Thessaloniki Greece Telephone +30 2310 99 61 33 Fax +30 2310 99 64 15 e-mail : xeee-2004@topo.auth.gr http://xeee.topo.auth.gr/ ------------------------------ 3] Greece : National Map Library National Centre for Maps & Cartographic Heritage - National Map Library Dimitriou Poliorkitou 37 GR 546 33 Thessaloniki Greece Phone: +30 2310 243 120 | Fax: +30 2310 243 121 e-mail : box@maplibrary.gr http://www.maplibrary.gr/ ---------------------------------- This came up on google << October brought a very important visit to Greece on the invitation of my friend Professor Livieratos. Two meetings were in the Northern town of Kastoria. The first was the International Cartographic Workshop on Cartographic Curricula & Research in Tertiary Education in the Balkans (arranged by the Hellenic Cartographic Society as a first opportunity for cartographers in this region of Europe to meet, get to know each other, exchange information on the state of the art and of current work, and develop ideas for future collaboration and development of working contacts). My other ICA colleague was Professor Ormeling who made important contributions at this inaugural gathering. Sadly full representation from the relevant states was not possible but those who did attend made an impact and helped the group appreciate, better, the problems facing many of our mapping colleagues in this region. Another conference is planned for late 1998 which will build on the experiences of 1997. The 4th Annual Hellenic Cartographic Conference followed, where I spoke about the ICA and presented the 1997 Barbara Petchenik Award to young Spyros Talaganis. That same week also included a short invited address at a conference to commemorate the Rhigas Feraios Map Bicentennial, in Kozani, a city close to Kastoria. This meeting proved fascinating, and the map, which is one of the most important documents in modern Greek history, provide links to the country's national renaissance in the early 19th century. Published in Vienna in 1797 in 12 sheets, it represents the Balkans under Ottoman rule. >> http://www.msu.edu/user/olsonj/ica/Sum98_1.ht Evangelos Livieratos PO Box 1644 GR-540 06 Thessaloniki, GREECE Tel: +30 31 99 6121 Fax: +30 31 99 6137 livier@topo.auth.gr http://xeee.topo.auth.gr/ ---------------------------------- 4] And there is this uber fan of Rhigas Demetrios Karaberopoulos Tel: 0030.210.80.11.066 Mobile: 6944.30.49.68 Fax: 210.80.11.066 Address: 3 Miltiadou 145.62 Kifissia Athens, Greece Email: karamber@otenet.gr http://www.karaberopoulos.gr/karaberopoulos/biografiko_eg.asp <<< He founded the Society of Velestinioton of Athens (1981), which he is president of, and was publishing up to 1997 the paper "Voice of Velestino". He is the insprirer and co-founder of the original "Museum of Agricultural Instruments and Traditional Technology of Velestino" (1992). He founded the Scientific Association of Study Feres-Velestino-Rhigas (1987), which he is president of and has organized four International Congresses for Rhigas Velestinlis and his birth place (1986,1992,1997, 2003), and publishes the volumes of the their Acts with the name "Hyperia". Moreover he is editor of Rhigas Velestinlis' works and arranging their index: "Anthology of Physics" (1991), "Revolutionary Scripts", (1994) in which are included the Human Rights, the Constitution and Thurios, "Inquisitive documents for Rhigas Velestinlis" of Em. Legrand (1996) and K. Amantou (1997), "Thurios, Traditional music variations" (1997), "Morale Tripous" (2001), "Young Anacharsis" (2004), " Olympic Games" (2003). In order for the pioneer political thought of Rhigas to be known, he has the "Revolutionary Scripts" translated and published in the Balkan and European languages. Until now they have been published in eight languages: Bulgarian, Romanian, Serbian, Albanian, Italian, Russian, French and English, and are in the process to publish them in Spanish and German. He arranged the "Index" of the "Maps of Greece" of Rhigas and he was the editor of the first authentic republishing, the edition which had the support of the Academy of Athens (1998). He has presented the three most significant research of the last decades regarding Rhigas: a) A model of the book "Anthology of Physics" is the French Encyclopedia of Diderot and D? Alambert (1994). b) The geographical maps which Rhigas utilized for engraving his "Map of Greece" were the maps of French Gull. Delisle and Italian Rizzi Zannono (1998). c) Rhigas was the translator of Metastassios' "Olympia" (2001). Also he has published the study "Name and origin of Rhigas Velestinlis" (1997, second edition 2000) by which the real name is restored of the revolutionist "Rhigas Velestinlis". As well the School Books of History of Elementary and High School were corrected, because they had recorded his name as "Antonios Kyriazis", which was historically unreal and also the origin of Rhigas was proved to be from Velestino. He has participated in nearly all the congresses and symposiums in Greece and abroad, which were organized for Rhigas Velestinis with the o ccasion of the anniversary of his death. He also gives speeches about the personality and the revolutionary plan of Rhigas Veletsinlis.<>> Hope this helps to start with June Samaras KALAMOS BOOKS (For Books about Greece) 725 Vermouth Ave (# 1) Mississauga, Ontario Canada L5A 3X5 Tel : 905-272-4841 E-mail : kalamosbks@aol.com www.kalamosbooks.com From LYNGOS at aol.com Tue Nov 23 12:05:05 2004 From: LYNGOS at aol.com (LYNGOS@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:50 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Rhigas' maps Message-ID: In a message dated 11/23/04 11:53:13 Pacific Standard Time, mkliro@sfsu.edu writes: > I wondered if any of our list members could suggest relevant sources on the > topic of Rhigas Pheraios' maps of Greece? A student of ours in geography > would > like to do some research in that area. > Many thanks, > Martha Klironomos > > http://www.gys.gr/english/EN3_8_3.htm Regards to all..........L. George Sofoklis Tsapanos Visalia, Ca. "Vlacs, the autochthonous of the Hellenic peninsula". -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041123/3222215c/attachment.html From dkatseto at bellatlantic.net Tue Nov 23 02:35:41 2004 From: dkatseto at bellatlantic.net (Christos D. Katsetos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:50 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Rhigas' maps References: <20041117201649.4905B26674@maillists.nac.uci.edu> <1101237244.41a38bfcc8fa3@webmail.sfsu.edu> Message-ID: <41A3127C.2F89070C@bellatlantic.net> mkliro@sfsu.edu wrote: > I wondered if any of our list members could suggest relevant sources on the > topic of Rhigas Pheraios' maps of Greece? A student of ours in geography would > like to do some research in that area. > Many thanks, > Martha Klironomos The famous Rigas Velestinlis-Feraios's Chart, depicting the ancestral Greek territories including the Aegean islands and the territories in Asia Minor was engraved by Franz M?ller in 1797*. Approximately 1200 copies, mostly black and white, and a small number in color, were printed in the printing house of Publios and Georgios Markides Pouliou in Vienna. http://www.bl.uk/gabriel/treasures/country/Greece/gr03.html The Map of Greece and related works by Rigas Velestinlis-Feraios can be found in the "Special Collections" section of the Hellenic Parliamentary Library in Athens http://www.loc.gov/rr/european/GrkColl/abadjis.html Last but not least, I would like to highly recommend my good friend Christos N?ssli -- an authority on historical cartography http://www.euratlas.net/ -- as an invaluable source of information on this and/oe other geography/cartography-related questions. C.D.K. Footnote [*] Charta t?s Hellados en ? periechontai ai n?soi autes kai meros t?n eis t?n Europ?n kai Mikran Asian polyarithm?n apoiki?n [...]. http://www.mostradellibroantico.it/expo/3.php In the same year, while en route to Greece, Velestinlis was betrayed and arrested by the Austrian authorities in Trieste. After many months in captivity, he was handed over to the Ottoman authorities in Belgrade where he along with seven of his cadres were put in prison and killed by strangulation in 1798. Related link Rigas's "Thourios" http://philippos.mpa.gr/gr/other/rhgas/thourios.html > > > _______________________________________________ > List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041123/e58de77d/attachment.html From apostpapageorg at ath.forthnet.gr Tue Nov 23 14:41:36 2004 From: apostpapageorg at ath.forthnet.gr (apostpapageorg) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:50 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Rhigas' maps References: <20041117201649.4905B26674@maillists.nac.uci.edu> <1101237244.41a38bfcc8fa3@webmail.sfsu.edu> Message-ID: <001601c4d1ad$97d850e0$a89410d5@pc2> 23 Nov. 2004 Dear Martha, I may also mention a couple of greek language sources. First is the most important study about Rigas by Leandros Vranousis a monumentary work (1963, 1968) and Apost. Daskalakis "Meletai peri Riga Velestinli" (1969) and a very old the "Geographia" of Bishop Meletios o B' o "Geographos", Published by the Glykys Brothers printing shop in Venice 1729. The most important book of information about Geography of all the World at this period in Greek language. It is found on line, unfortunately I have lost the URL of the site. Chr. Katsetos might be able to help, since he has mentioned a web site where are many old greek books in digital form. Certainly some library in the US must hold copies of the above books. Sicerely, Apostolis Papageorgiou apostpapageorg@ath.forthnet.gr ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 9:14 PM Subject: [MGSA-L] Rhigas' maps > I wondered if any of our list members could suggest relevant sources on the > topic of Rhigas Pheraios' maps of Greece? A student of ours in geography would > like to do some research in that area. > Many thanks, > Martha Klironomos > > _______________________________________________ > List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l > > From christos.nuessli at euratlas.com Tue Nov 23 15:43:38 2004 From: christos.nuessli at euratlas.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Christos_N=FCssli?=) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:50 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Rhigas' maps In-Reply-To: <41A3127C.2F89070C@bellatlantic.net> References: <20041117201649.4905B26674@maillists.nac.uci.edu> <1101237244.41a38bfcc8fa3@webmail.sfsu.edu> <41A3127C.2F89070C@bellatlantic.net> Message-ID: <41A3CB2A.1080603@euratlas.com> Christos D. Katsetos a ?crit : > > > mkliro@sfsu.edu wrote: > >> I wondered if any of our list members could suggest relevant sources >> on the >> topic of Rhigas Pheraios' maps of Greece? A student of ours in >> geography would >> like to do some research in that area. >> Many thanks, >> Martha Klironomos > > Of course I have the fac-simile of the Righas Pheraios map (Epistimoniki etaipia meletis Feron - Velestinou - Riga 1999) but, for copyright reasons, I cannot show it on my website. Anyhow, if your student needs some details about the depicted topography, he can contact me directly. Atb _____________________________ Christos N?ssli ***************************** http://www.euratlas.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041124/1f907088/attachment.html From dkatseto at bellatlantic.net Tue Nov 23 04:00:25 2004 From: dkatseto at bellatlantic.net (Christos D. Katsetos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:51 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Rhigas' maps References: <20041117201649.4905B26674@maillists.nac.uci.edu> <1101237244.41a38bfcc8fa3@webmail.sfsu.edu> <001601c4d1ad$97d850e0$a89410d5@pc2> Message-ID: <41A32658.E6121C10@bellatlantic.net> apostpapageorg wrote: > [snip] ...and a very old the "Geographia" of Bishop Meletios o B' o > "Geographos", > Published by the Glykys Brothers printing shop in Venice 1729. > The most important book of information about Geography of all the World > at this period in Greek language. It is found on line, unfortunately I have > lost > the URL of the site. Chr. Katsetos might be able to help, since he has > mentioned a web site where are many old greek books in digital form. > Dear Apostoli, Scroll down to the links pertaining to the published works of Metropolitan Bishop Meletios MeletioV, MhtropolithV Aqhnwn (Micahl) (1661-1714) http://195.134.75.8/main.htm Regards, Christos Related link http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/2003-November/002687.html > > > _______________________________________________ > List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041123/2d1780e0/attachment.html From LYNGOS at aol.com Tue Nov 23 16:49:23 2004 From: LYNGOS at aol.com (LYNGOS@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:51 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Rhigas' maps Message-ID: <1b8.6f00f94.2ed53493@aol.com> In a message dated 11/23/04 15:53:44 Pacific Standard Time, dkatseto@bellatlantic.net writes: > In the same year, while en route to Greece, Velestinlis was betrayed and > arrested by the Austrian authorities in Trieste. After many months in > captivity, he was handed over to the Ottoman authorities in Belgrade where he along > with seven of his cadres were put in prison and killed by strangulation in > 1798. > Regarding the place where the Vlach Rigas Ferraios was assasinated for "Revolutionary Activities", seeking the liberation of the Hellenes from the Ottoman Empire, something more. >From the MPA and for "Fair Use only": http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=131675 THE NEBOJSA TOWER WILL BECOME A HISTORICAL MONUMENT Athens, 15 November 2004 (16:28 UTC+2) The Nebojsa Tower in Belgrade, scene of torture and death for revolution visionary Rigas Feraios and his 7 comrades by the Ottoman authorities, will become a historical monument and every plan for its commercial exploitation is cancelled permanently. This was decided in the contacts a Greek delegation, headed by Greek Parliament B' vice-president Mr. Sourlas, had with Serbia's Culture Ministry and the mayor of Belgrade. The Greek delegation proposed to the Serb side to restore the tower and turn it into a common historical monument for the two peoples in honor of the liberation struggle undertaken by the Serbs and the Greeks having as a dominant figure Rigas Feraios, who was imprisoned in Nebojsa Tower and was strangled there together with his comrades in 1798." Regards to all.............L. George Sofoklis Tsapanos Visalia, Ca. "Vlachs, the autochthonous of the Hellenic peninsula". -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041123/58984998/attachment.html From mkliro at sfsu.edu Tue Nov 23 17:34:04 2004 From: mkliro at sfsu.edu (mkliro@sfsu.edu) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:51 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Rhigas' maps In-Reply-To: <20041123200531.32B4D26386@maillists.nac.uci.edu> References: <20041123200531.32B4D26386@maillists.nac.uci.edu> Message-ID: <1101260044.41a3e50c822cb@webmail.sfsu.edu> Many thanks to all of you who replied to my query on Rhigas Pheraios' maps! I'll pass them along to our student. Martha Klironomos Quoting mgsa-l-request@uci.edu: > Send MGSA-L mailing list submissions to > mgsa-l@uci.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > mgsa-l-request@uci.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > mgsa-l-owner@uci.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of MGSA-L digest..." > From webmaster at grconsulate.com Tue Nov 23 18:24:08 2004 From: webmaster at grconsulate.com (webmaster@grconsulate.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:51 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Giorgos Seferis =?iso-8859-1?q?=96_Nobel_Lecture_-_Some_Notes_on?= =?iso-8859-1?q?_Modern_Greek_Tradition?= In-Reply-To: <41A3CB2A.1080603@euratlas.com> References: <20041117201649.4905B26674@maillists.nac.uci.edu> <1101237244.41a38bfcc8fa3@webmail.sfsu.edu> <41A3127C.2F89070C@bellatlantic.net> <41A3CB2A.1080603@euratlas.com> Message-ID: <4461.207.112.94.47.1101263048.squirrel@207.112.94.47> Surfing the web, I found the Nobel Lecture that Giorgos Seferis gave on December 11, 1963 An excerpt which I found interesting: "I have not spoken to you of the ancients. I did not want to tire you. Perhaps I should add a few words. Since the fifteenth century, since the fall of Byzantium, they have increasingly become the heritage of mankind. They have been integrated into what we have come to call European civilization. We rejoice that so many nations contribute to bring them closer to our life. Still, there are certain things that have remained our inalienable possessions. When I read in Homer the simple words ?daozhelioio? - today I would say ?dwztouhliou? (the sunlight) - I experience a familiarity that stems from a collective soul rather than from an intellectual effort. It is a tone, one might say, whose harmonies reach quite far; it feels very different from anything a translation can give. For we do, after all, speak the same language - a language changed, if you insist, by an evolution of several thousand years, but despite everything faithful to itself - and the feeling for a language derives from emotions as much as from knowledge. This language shows the imprints of deeds and attitudes repeated throughout the ages down to our own. These imprints sometimes have a surprising way of simplifying problems of interpretation that seem very difficult to others. I will not say that we are of the same blood, for I abhor racial theories, but we have always lived in the same country and have seen the same mountains slope into the sea. Perhaps I have used the word ?tradition? without pointing out that it does not mean habit. On the contrary, tradition holds us by the ability to break habits, and thus proves its vitality." The entire lecture can be read at: http://nobelprize.org/literature/laureates/1963/seferis-lecture.html Be Well All, Sotiris From JUNESAM at aol.com Wed Nov 24 07:19:06 2004 From: JUNESAM at aol.com (JUNESAM@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:51 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] COMPUTER USE IN GREECE Message-ID: <76.46ed4b6b.2ed6006a@aol.com> [26] One in five Greeks use the Internet Athens, 23/11/2004 (ANA) The average user of computer and the Internet in Greece is aged between 16-34 years, is a graduate of lyceum or vocational school and is working, a survey by the National Statistics Service said on Monday. The survey, conducted on a sample of 4,970 people, aged 16-74 years old, showed that one in three Greek households owned a computer. One in five Greeks used the Internet in the first quarter of 2004, one in four Greeks used a computer in the first quarter of 2004 and that 94 percent of Internet users were seeking information over product and services, 80 percent were seeking communication (e-mail, e-chat, etc), 44.5 percent were seeking information on educational matters and 40 percent was receiving information from public sector's websites. Only 10 percent of Internet users were making banking or other financial transactions in Greece, the survey said. E-buying, however, remained at very low levels with only 6.0 percent of Internet users making their purchases. Greeks said they avoided using the Internet because "information were not useful, or damaging," while 49 percent of users complained over its high cost of equipment and access (49 percent). The survey showed that 76 percent of Greek households owned a mobile telephone, 99.5 percent a TV set and 5.0 percent a satellite TV. From rolandmo at pacbell.net Wed Nov 24 09:57:08 2004 From: rolandmo at pacbell.net (Roland Moore) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:51 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] SAE/Berghahn European Anthropology in Translation Project Message-ID: <20041124175708.7095.qmail@web51008.mail.yahoo.com> Cross-posted from: H-SAE@H-NET.MSU.EDU (SAE stands for the Society for the Anthropology of Europe, a section of the American Anthropological Association) Call for Submissions - Due Date, February 1, 2005. The Society for the Anthropology of Europe is accepting submissions for our forthcoming series, European Anthropology in Translation, in partnership with Berghahn Books. The targeted submission is of a very specific type, and we will only be looking at those submissions that appear at first glance to satisfy our most basic parameters for the series. We would like to receive submissions from: --European anthropologists/ethnologists. --Working in Europe, broadly defined. --In possession of manuscripts previously published in their native language. --Preferably capable of translating (or arranging the translation of their work. --Owning the international rights to said manuscript. Interested in reaching an American audience, covering issues of broad relevance to American colleagues, moving beyond an audience of specialists in a field/topic/area. If you believe yourself to be in possession of these attributes, we would enjoy hearing from you during a preliminary selection round intended to produce a handful of candidates for our first volume in the series. Please outline the following (in English): --One paragraph (150-200 word) biography. --One paragraph (150-300 word) abstract of your volume. --One paragraph (150-300 word) outline of your manuscript's attraction for American ethnographers. How does it fill a perceived lack in our perception of the society/culture you study? --One paragraph addressing the publishing history of your manuscript and its legal status. --One paragraph addressing your translation skills, or other avenues you would pursue. Due to the anticipated high volume of submissions, any proposals that do not fulfill these requirements will be summarily rejected (though you may resubmit). Failure to send your proposal by the deadline of February 1, 2005, will also be cause for summary rejection. Please send your proposal electronically to the contact information provided below: Susan Mazur-Stommen, Ph.D. Editor, Chair for Special Projects and Publications Society for the Anthropology of Europe susanmazur@hotmail.com No attachments, please! From george.syrimis at yale.edu Wed Nov 24 10:30:23 2004 From: george.syrimis at yale.edu (George Syrimis) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:51 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Yale University Civil War Session Message-ID: The Greek Civil War: Emerging Research Agendas A Symposium in Honor of John Iatrides 13 December 2004 Yale University Whitney Humanities Center Room 208 53 Wall Street 1:00-1:15 Welcome and Introduction 1:15: 1:50 Keynote address The Foreign Factor in the Greek Civil War: A Re-evaluation John Iatrides, Southern Connecticut State University 1:50-4:00 Emerging Research Agendas Laura Engelstein, Yale University, Chair Urban Resistance and the Beginning of the Civil Conflict, 1943-1944 Evanthis Hatzivasiliou, University of Athens The Greek Civil War Bibliography: Old and New Trends Nikos Marantzidis, University of Macedonia Collaboration as Revenge: Evidence from a Local Study Stelios Perrakis, Concordia University Women and Children in the Greek Civil War Tasoula Vervenioti, University of Thessaly New Trends: Findings and their Reception Stathis Kalyvas, Yale University 4:00-4:30 Coffee break 4:30-6:00 Panel Discussion Stathis Kalyvas, Yale University, Chair Juli?n Casanova, University of Saragossa and New School University Keith Darden, Yale University Mark Mazower, Columbia University Christine Philliou, Yale University Elisabeth Wood, Yale University 6:00-7:00 Discussion 7:00-7:30 Reception -- George Syrimis Tel: (203) 432-9342 Associate Program Chair Fax: (203 432-5963 Hellenic Studies Program 34 Hillhouse Avenue, Room 301 New Haven, CT 06520-8206 Http://www.yale.edu/ycias/hsp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041124/d1ad789c/attachment.html From JUNESAM at aol.com Wed Nov 24 18:58:47 2004 From: JUNESAM at aol.com (JUNESAM@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:51 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] DENKTASH Message-ID: [16] Denktash says NGOs influenced T/C vote on Annan plan, cites 50% 'no' vote today ISTANBUL 24/11/2004 (ANA) Turkish Cypriot leader Rauf Denktash was quoted by a newspaper here this week as saying that huge amounts of money funneled to NGOs influenced the Turkish Cypriots' vote in favor of the Annan peace plan, while claiming that a 'no' vote would reach the 50-percent mark today. "... and that's because not one of the promises was kept," he was quoted by the Turkish daily "Vatan" as saying. Moreover, the man who has ruled over a puppet regime in the one-third of the island republic occupied by Turkish troops since 1974 complained that many Turkish businessmen consider Cyprus a "burden" for Turkey. Denktash also referred to a split amongst Turkish intellectuals over Cyprus, at one point saying that a predominate view emerged in the country that "Cyprus is a sacred lie, and that it's time to wake up from this lie, otherwise, the EU issue will be lost," the paper quotes him as saying. "A portion of them (intellectuals) wholeheartedly support us, and another portion, the minority -- but the one heard more because it controls the media -- says that the 'significant issue is the EU and not Cyprus' ... they are the ones that do the damage," he added. Asked how Ankara can be "relieved" of the Cyprus issue, Denktash said: "Relieved of what? Will you be relieved of a Turkish bastion that protects your southern shores?... From dkatseto at bellatlantic.net Wed Nov 24 18:43:46 2004 From: dkatseto at bellatlantic.net (Christos D. Katsetos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:51 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] The holy relics of Saints John Chrysostom and Gregory the Theologian will be received directly from Vatican afterall Message-ID: <41A546E1.9E3E83C1@bellatlantic.net> The holy relics of Patriarchs Saints John Chrysostom and Gregory the Theologian will be received directly from Vatican and brought home to Phanari (Fener), Istanbul by a high level patriarchal delegation headed by the Ecumenical Patriarch himself. Quoting verbatim from the official press release of the Patriarchate: "Members of the Entourage of the Ecumenical Patriarch are their Eminences Archbishop Gregory of Thyateira and Great Britain, Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Myra and Metropolitan Anthimos of Alexandroupolis, the Rev. Alex Karloutsos, the Rev. Deacon Andrew Sofianopoulos, Professor Dr. Gregory Skalkeas, member of the Academy of Athens and others. Moreover, His Eminence Archbishop Demetrios of America will lead the group of representatives of the Greek-American orthodox faithful to be present during the ceremony in St. Peter's Basilica." The full text of the Press Release issued on 25/11/2004 can be accessed in the URLs below: http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?lang=en&id=327&tla=en [in English] http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?lang=gr&id=326&tla=gr [in Greek] http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?lang=gr&id=326&tla=tr [in Turkish] C.D.K. Related links http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=495639 http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/2004-November/004363.html http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/2004-November/004374.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041125/d07f00b5/attachment.html From dkatseto at bellatlantic.net Thu Nov 25 08:28:39 2004 From: dkatseto at bellatlantic.net (Christos D. Katsetos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:51 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Islanders fight isolation Message-ID: <41A60837.CD4341D1@bellatlantic.net> Widespread strikes across the board are mounting on most major Aegean islands, including Samos, Chios, Lesvos, Kalymnos and Rhodes calling attention to the grossly substandard transportation services in the Aegean especially during the "out of season" months. http://www.eKathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_100002_25/11/2004_49911 This is just the tip of the iceberg and a well overdue call to Athens to undertake immediate strategic initiatives aimed to restore and rebuild the crumbling infrastructure of Greece's provincial regions and put an end to this appalling isolation. C.D.K. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041126/3ed9a9df/attachment.html From apostpapageorg at ath.forthnet.gr Fri Nov 26 03:23:55 2004 From: apostpapageorg at ath.forthnet.gr (apostpapageorg) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:51 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Re: MGSA-L list member awarded medal of honor.. Message-ID: <001c01c4d3aa$6b2a6ca0$1e9610d5@pc2> Dear list members, . A fellow MGSA-L list member H.F. Meyer has been awarded a medal of honor of the Federal Republic of Germany, for his oustanding research work on WW2 Wehrmachts actions, operations and crimes commited in Greece. Have a look in the web site listed below http://www.helleniccomserve.com/meyeraward.html apostolos papageorgiou apostpapageorg@ath.forthnet.gr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041126/11803f23/attachment.html From webmaster at grconsulate.com Fri Nov 26 20:53:25 2004 From: webmaster at grconsulate.com (webmaster@grconsulate.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:51 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Bush Tells Greece He Will Accept Talks on Macedonia In-Reply-To: <001c01c4d3aa$6b2a6ca0$1e9610d5@pc2> References: <001c01c4d3aa$6b2a6ca0$1e9610d5@pc2> Message-ID: <2327.207.112.94.47.1101531206.squirrel@207.112.94.47> I don't think anyone else posted this to the list: http://www.reuters.com/printerFriendlyPopup.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=6857989 Bush Tells Greece He Will Accept Talks on Macedonia Thu Nov 18, 2004 02:42 PM ET ATHENS (Reuters) - President Bush has told Greece that Washington will accept the outcome of U.N.-led talks on a title for its small northern neighbor, although Washington recognized it by the disputed name "Macedonia" this month. Greece has quarreled with Macedonia over its name ever since the former Yugoslav republic became independent in 1991. Greece claims the name for its northern province, and says use of the name by its neighbor could imply a territorial claim. The United Nations has led talks for more than a decade to find a mutually acceptable name for the small state, which is still seated at U.N. headquarters as the "Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia," or FYROM. But Washington recognized it as the "Republic of Macedonia" on November 6, infuriating Greeks. The Greek prime minister's office released a letter from Bush on Thursday in which Bush explained the decision as a way to help defeat a nationalist-inspired referendum in Macedonia aimed at reducing the rights of its large Albanian minority. "I realize our decision to recognize Macedonia by its constitutional name generated significant controversy in Greece," Bush wrote to Greek Prime Minister Costas Karamanlis in the letter, dated November 16. "Our single goal was to bolster stability in Macedonia and its neighborhood at a crucial moment," Bush wrote. "We will embrace any solution that emerges from these (U.N.-led) negotiations." Bush wrote: "The United States has to act quickly and decisively, given the speed of events and the high stakes surrounding Macedonia's November 7 referendum." The Macedonian government, backed by the United States and Europe, encouraged a boycott of the referendum, which failed because of low turnout. Western countries said success for the referendum could have spurred ethnic violence in Macedonia. Greece, surprised by Washington's move on November 6, called the decision wrong and unfortunate, adding the dispute could hurt the chances of the land-locked state of 2.1 million people joining the European Union, which Greece could deny by veto. From LYNGOS at aol.com Sat Nov 27 10:14:03 2004 From: LYNGOS at aol.com (LYNGOS@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:52 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Bush Tells Greece He Will Accept Talks on Macedonia Message-ID: <67.38d5a4ff.2eda1deb@aol.com> In a message dated 11/27/04 08:42:53 Pacific Standard Time, webmaster@grconsulate.com writes: > I don't think anyone else posted this to the list: > > http://www.reuters.com/printerFriendlyPopup.jhtml?type=politicsNews& > storyID=6857989 > > Bush Tells Greece He Will Accept Talks on Macedonia > Thu Nov 18, 2004 02:42 PM ET > Not to forget of course the fact that Karamanlis is asking President Bush for help, here it is in greek: http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=496009 and especially the dirty dealing in the State Department recognizing Makedonian continuation to F.Y.R.O.M./Skopia, here it is also in Greek. http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=496002 It is clear that the President is trusting his people in the State Department, however when under pressure from the Hellenic organizations, he is willing to change course. The simple fact, that before the official recognition by the U.S.A. of F.Y.R.O.M./SKOPIA as "Republic of Makedonia", the State Department's people had to conference with the Democratic Party's Foreign Policy "makers-dealers" for taking such a decision, is a clear indication in my opinion that the U.S.A. has already decided granding Independence to Serbian eparchy of Kossovo. (Clark-Allbright and few others, including Dole and few Republican ex-repressentatives are favoring such a solution for long time). By recognizing F.Y.R.O.M/SKOPIA by its constitutional name, the State Department is thinking that damages will be minimal with regards a possible unification between the Western part of F.Y.R.O.M/SKOPIA and an Independent Kossovo, which will become known as KossovA. Such opinion of mine is re-inforced from the initial temporary supporting by Albania into recognizing F.Y.R.O.M./SKOPIA under its constitutional name, in order to change course few hours later (most likely under pressure not just by the Greek goverment, but equally by the U.S.A. and the White House which by then as the earlier post is suggesting, accepted a bilateral solution for the name by Greece and F.Y.R.O.M./SKOPIA.). In other words, "Let us do it our way, do not make waves and trust us, we care for the best of your future". The problem ? The problem lies that is the proccess of securing the stable flow of oil from the Caspian Sea to the Adriatic, thru a conductor-pipe running thru "friendly countries" like Bulgaria, F.Y.R.O.M/SKOPIA, KossovA, and Albania, the State Department has to grand to such countries and especially F.Y.R.O.M./SKOPIA, certain "benefits". Since, the recent developments. And of course, Europe remains an ally if full apathy. Pathetic! Regards to all.............L. George Sofoklis Tsapanos Visalia, Ca. "Vlachs, the autochthonous of the Hellenic peninsula". -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041127/383ec35f/attachment.html From AKarpathak at aol.com Sat Nov 27 17:58:16 2004 From: AKarpathak at aol.com (AKarpathak@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:52 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Check out ekathimerini.com | Domestic violence is class-blind Message-ID: <1c8.21416f5f.2eda8ab8@aol.com> Who said Greek journalists aren't ready for this??? (a little joke here based on a discussion I guess a couple of years back.) Anna K. _Click here: ekathimerini.com | Domestic violence is class-blind_ (http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_3138752_25/11/2004_49908) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041127/815b6b5e/attachment.html From dkatseto at bellatlantic.net Sat Nov 27 06:14:04 2004 From: dkatseto at bellatlantic.net (Christos D. Katsetos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:52 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] An update on the recognition of Cyprus by Turkey and other caveats (a review of the Turkish press) Message-ID: <41A88BAB.54A5368E@bellatlantic.net> There are conflicting reports in the Turkish press regarding the thorny issue of recognition of the Republic of Cyprus by Turkey ahead of the upcoming EU summit in Brussels. Yesterday's issue of the Turkish daily Zaman reports that after the announcement by Turkish FM Abdullah G?l that Turkey will not recognize the Republic of Cyprus, the latter has conceded that such a recognition would not be necessary prior to the December 17th summit. http://www.zaman.com/?bl=international&alt=&trh=20041127&hn=14180 Yet, a different picture was painted by Zaman's correspondents in Nicosia earlier today: http://www.zaman.com/?bl=international&alt=&trh=20041127&hn=14207 But on balance the Cyprus recognition nuisance is certainly no match to the two other confounding issues at hand, notably (a) the recurring idea about a "privileged partnership" status for T?rkiye and (b) the "permanent restriction of free movement (within the EU)" for Turkish workers. In a latest report titled "2 Negative Signals on Turkey's EU Bid", Zaman's journalists Selcuk Gultasli and Suleyman Kurt draw attention to these and other salient issues and caveats. http://www.zaman.com/?bl=international&alt=&hn=14201 These concerns echo Val?ry Giscard d'Estaing's discourse encapsulated in his statement "What about Turkey or what about Europe?" The URL below is the commentary titled "Return to Reason", which was penned down by Giscard d'Estaing exclusively for Zaman. http://www.zaman.com/?bl=commentary&alt=&trh=20041125&hn=14146 Related link http://www.hurriyetim.com.tr/haber/0,,sid~381@nvid~501280,00.asp Returning to Cyprus, it was only a couple of days ago that Dutch Foreign Minister Bot on behalf of the EU Presidency of the Netherlands had suggested that it would be 'desirable' that EU candidate Turkey recognize a fellow EU member, the Republic of Cyprus before December 17th. http://www.hurriyetim.com.tr/haber/0,,sid~381@nvid~501280,00.asp In the meantime, Turkish President Ahmet Necdet Sezer "called on the Moslem world to take steps ending the isolation imposed on Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus." [H?rriyet 11/25/04]. http://www.hurriyetim.com.tr/haber/0,,sid~381@nvid~501342,00.asp Of related interest in this regard is an earlier editorial by senior columnist, Mehmet Ali Birand titled "Let Greek Cypriots veto Turkey!" published in the Turkish Daily News on 11/19/2004. The veteran journalist and champion of Greco-Turkish rapprochement, best remembered for his famous phrase "efharisto poly file" during the days of 'earthquake diplomacy', went as far as to characterize the diplomatic initiatives of the government of Cyprus as "a game of aggressive thieves." http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?ID=34118 Also see http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?ID=34465 C.D.K. PS. On the lighter side, while sipping my rich Turkish coffee, I came across an intriguing English translation of the term Rum by one of correspondents of Zaman in Athens. The relevant excerpt reads: "... Declaring that the American government had pressured the Turkish side to avoid behavior that could make legitimize the 'possible' veto of Greek and Rum (Greeks who holds Turkish citizenship) Cypriots, the newspaper claimed that the US offer of January 1st 2006 satisfied both sides." [Copyright? 1995-2004 Feza Newspaper Publishing Co. ; for 'fair use' and educational purposes only. Emphasis in bold fond is mine.] http://www.zaman.com/?bl=international&alt=&trh=20041122&hn=14062 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041127/9b7a376b/attachment.html From hellas.alive at verizon.net Sat Nov 27 11:26:55 2004 From: hellas.alive at verizon.net (Barbara Tsairis) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:52 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] New Host Site in Athens Message-ID: <000001c4d4b7$0f08b8b0$0302a8c0@STEFANA> Dear Colleagues, Building on the spirit and energy of the Olympic Games and the Cultural Olympiad, the Hellenic American Union, located in the heart of Athens, offers to host short-term summer programs that would explore topics of interest in the fields of art, architecture, politics, religion, intercultural understanding, or sport. The Hellenic American Union, founded in 1959 by prominent educational. political, and business leaders and leading members of the US Embassy in Athens, has functioned for nearly 50 years as a public service organization with an international focus, dedicated to providing opportunities for a diverse range of audiences to benefit from innovative educational programs and cultural events. The precise content and syllabus of the course could be determined by the visiting faculty member. The Hellenic American Union will provide travel, accommodations, and a modest stipiend for the accompanying faculty member, in addition to study facilities (including classrooms, computer access, and a state-of-the-art writing center), and support personnel. It will also arrange accommodations for students, as well as related cultural excursions and lectures appropriate to the course content. The cost of the program will depend on the nature of the course to be offered, but can be tailored to the needs and budget of the students and professor. Please contact Barbara Tsairis at hellas.alive@verizon.net or by phone (603-645-1800) for further information. For more information on the Hellenic American Union, go to www.hau.gr. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041127/d26942b7/attachment.html From baloglou at Oswego.EDU Sat Nov 27 21:53:47 2004 From: baloglou at Oswego.EDU (George Baloglou) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:52 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] An update on the recognition of Cyprus by Turkey and other caveats (a review of the Turkish press) In-Reply-To: <41A88BAB.54A5368E@bellatlantic.net> References: <41A88BAB.54A5368E@bellatlantic.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 27 Nov 2004, Christos D. Katsetos wrote: > Of related interest in this regard is an earlier editorial by senior > columnist, Mehmet Ali Birand titled "Let Greek Cypriots veto Turkey!" > published in the Turkish Daily News on 11/19/2004. The veteran > journalist and champion of Greco-Turkish rapprochement, best remembered > for his famous phrase "efharisto poly file" during the days of > 'earthquake diplomacy', went as far as to characterize the diplomatic > initiatives of the government of Cyprus as "a game of aggressive > thieves." http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?ID=34118 Interestingly, seven months ago -- that is, one week after the referendum -- Mr. Birand was in favor of Turkey's recognition of the Republic of Cyprus (even if only as 'southern Cyprus', I suppose): "The recognition of the southern Cyprus by Turkey, which has formally recognized the KKTC, will not bring about any disadvantage. On the contrary, in consolidates the thesis that Cyprus is composed of two separate entities (Turkish and Greek). By doing so Turkey will get rid of all drawbacks it may encounter in the EU in the future and will be seen as a demonstration of Ankara's self-confidence." [source: http://www.turks.us/article.php?story=20040430224700350 ] From iioannou at hbs.edu Sun Nov 28 07:09:22 2004 From: iioannou at hbs.edu (Ioannis Ioannou) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:52 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] To veto or not veto ... Message-ID: To ???????? ??? ????????? ???????????? ???? ??? 17?? ?????????? ? 17? ?????????? 2004, ???? ???? ??? ????? ? ????????? ????? ????????? ?? ??????????? ??????? ??? ?????? ??? ??????? ??? ??? ?????????? ?????? ?????????? ???????????????? ?? ??? ??????? ????????? ??????????. ?? ??? ? ???????? ????????? ??? ????? ???????????? ???????? ?? ?????? ??????? ??? ?? ?????????? ??????? ?? ??? ?????? ?????? ??? ??????????? ???????????? (veto) ??? ????????? ???????????, ?? ?????????? ???????????? ????????? ???? ??? ?? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ????????? ??????? ??? ???????. ?? ?????????? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ??????? ??? ?????? ??????? ???: ??? ??????? ? ??? ?? ??????? ??? veto. ???? ??????????? ????? ??? ?????????? ???? ?? ??????????? ??? 24?? ????????, ? ???????? ???????????? ??????????? ???? ??? ??? ??????????? ?????????? ??? 76% ??? ????????? ???? ??? ?????? ?????. ?? ???? ????????, ???? ?? ????????? ??? ??? ?? ?? ??? ?????????? ??????????? ???????????? ??????? ??? ? ??????? ??? ????????? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ??????? ??? ?????. ????????? ??? ????? ?? ???????? ??? ????????? ????????????? ?????????? ??? ??????????? ???? ??????????? ?????????? ??? ???????? ??? ??????????? ???????? ???????, ???? ? ??????? ??????? veto ?? ?????? ?? ????? ????! ???? ?? ????????????? ??? ????? ??? ?? ??? ??? ????????????, ?????? ??? ???????? ??? ???? ??????????? ??? ?????????? ?? ??????????? ?? veto - ?? ??? ?????????? ??? ?????? ????? ??????? ??? ?? 60%. ???????, ?? ? ?. ???????? ???????? ??? ?????????? ??? ???? ??? ??? ??????? ?? veto, ???? ?? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ????????????? ??????????? ???? ?? ????? ???????. ????????, ? ?? ?????? veto ??? ?? ??????? ?? ??? ????? ???? ???????? ???????? ??? ???????????? ???? ??? ????? ??? ??? ??? ????????? ?????????????? ????????. ?? ? ?. ???????? ??? ???????????? ????? ??? ?????????????, ???? ????? ??? ?????????? ??????? ?? ???????? ??? ??? ??????????? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ??? ?? ?????????? ??? ?? veto. ?? ???????? ?????????, ?? ?????? ? ???? ??? ????????, ? ???????? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ??????? ????? ??? ? ????????? ????? ????????? ??????? ?? ??????????? ?? ????? ???????. ???? ? ???? ????????? ??????????? ?? ????????? ?? ?????? ?????, ???? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ?????????? ??? ?? veto ??? ????????? ?? ??????? ??? ????????? ??? ????????? ???. ?? ??????? ????????? ??? ??? ????? ??? ??? ??? ???,??? ????????? ?? ??? ???????????? ?? ??????????? ?? ???? ?? ?????. ??????????? ???? ??? ??? ? ??????? ??? ???????? ??? ??????? ??? ????????? ??????????? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ????????, ? ??????? ??? ????????? ??? ????? ????????? ???????? ?? ?? ?????????? ????? ??? ??? ????? ????? ???????? ??????? ????????? ???????? ??? ?????????? ???????? ?????????? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ??????? ??????? ????????????????. ? ?????????? ??????????? ????????? ???????? ??? ?????????? Bush, ??? ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?????????????? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ???????? ???? ????????? ?????, ??????? ??? ????????? ?? ??? ?????? ?????????????. ? ?????? ????????? ???? ????? ??? ????????? ??????????? ????????????? ??????? ????????? ????? ?????????????? ??? ??? ?????? ?? ?????????? ??? ???????????? ??????????????? ??? ??????????? ??? ?????. ?? ??????? ?????????? ????? ? ?????? ?? ??? ??????? veto ???? 17 ?????????? ??? ? ???????? ?????????? ?? ???????? ???????? ??????? ????????????, ???? ????? ? ?????? ?????????? ??? ??????? ????? ??? ???? ??????? ???????? ?????????? ??? ???? ??? ????????? ??? ????????????? ??????. ??? ???, ?????????? ??????, ?? ?? ?? ?????? ????? ????????? ?????? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ??? ???????, ???? ?? ?? ?? ??? ????????? ???? ?? ??????? ???????; ????? ?????????? ??? ??????????? de facto ??? ?????? ??? ??? ??????? ??? ?????? ??? ??????; ????? ?????????? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ??? ??? ????????? ????? ??? ?????, ?????????? ???????? ??? ?????? ??? ??????? ???? ??????? ????? ??? ?? ?????????? ?????? ?????? ?? ??? ?????? ??? ???????? ?????? ?????????? ???????; ????????, ???? ?? ??? ????????? ??????? ?? ?????: ????? ?? ????? ? ????? ???? ????? ??? ??????? ??? ?????????????? ??? ???????? ???????????? ??? ????????? ?? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ?????? ???? ????????? ??????? ??? ??????; ??????? ?? ???????? ?????? ?? ??????????????????? ??? ?? 76% ??? ????, ?? ? ?????? ??? ????????? ??? ????????? ?????? ??? ???????? ???? 17 ??????????, ?? ???? ?????????? ??????????! ? ????????? ??? ? ?????? ??? ?????? ????????? ? ????????, ???????? ???? ??? ?????? ???????????? ??? ???????? ??????????? ?? ????????? ?????????? ?????? ?????. ?? 76% ??? ????????? ?? ????????????? ????? ??? ???????????? ????? ???? ???? 17 ??????????, ? ????? ???????? ??? ??? ?????? ?? ??????? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ????????? ????, ?? ????????? ??? ??????? ??????? ???????????????? ??? ????????, ?????????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ???? ??????????? ??? ??? ????????????, ????????? ???? ??? ??????? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ??? ??? ??????. ????, ??? ?? ???????? ??????? ??? ?????? ????? ?? ??????????? ??? ???????? ??? ?. ???????????? ????? ?? ?????? ??? ? ????? ??? ???? ????? ??????????? ????????????? ??? ????????????? ??? ???? ??????????; ????? ?????? ?????? ?? ???????????? ??? ???????????? ??? ?????? ?????????? ???????????????? ??? ????????, ? ?. ???????????? ????????????? ???? ?? ????????????? ???????????????? ????? ??? ??? ???????? ? ?????? ??? ?????? ???? ????????? ?????. ??????? ?? ??? ??? ???? ???????, ??????, ??????????? ??? ?????????? ??? ???? ????? ?????????? veto ???? 17 ??????????, ? ???????? ???????????? ????? ????????? ?????????. ???? 17 ??? ????????, ? ?????? ??? ? ???? ??? ?? ?????????? ??????? ?? ??? ????????? ????????? lose-lose ? ????? ??? ????? ????? ??????? ?? ???????????. ?? ?? ??????? ?? ?????????? ? ?. ???????? ??? ?????????? ???????? ???? 18 ??? ???????? ?? ??? ??????? ?? veto; ?? ?? ??????? ?? ?????????? ? ?. ???????? ?? ????? ??????? veto ??? ????????? ??? ? ??????? ????????? ?? ????????? ??? ?????????? ??? ??? de facto ?????????? ??? ??????; ? ?????? ????????? ??? ??? ?. ???????????, ??? ????? ??? ????, ?? ??? ?????? ??????????? ??? ????????? ?? ??????????? ???? ?? ???? ?????????. ??????? ??????? Doctoral Student PhD Business Economics Harvard Economics Dept and Business School Ioannis Ioannou Doctoral Student PhD Business Economics Harvard Economics Dept and Business School Boston, MA 02163 www.businessdoc.org www.people.hbs.edu/iioannou "At bottom every man knows well enough that he is a unique being, only once on this earth; and by no extraordinary chance will such a marvelously picturesque piece of diversity in unity as he is, ever be put together a second time." Friedrich Nietzsche From dkatseto at bellatlantic.net Sat Nov 27 18:52:43 2004 From: dkatseto at bellatlantic.net (Christos D. Katsetos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:52 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] The holy relics of Saints John Chrysostom and Gregory theTheologian will be received directly from Vatican afterall References: <41A546E1.9E3E83C1@bellatlantic.net> Message-ID: <41A93D7A.32D0E15A@bellatlantic.net> With splendor and symbolism Pope John Paul II handed over to Patriarch Bartholomew I (Vartholomaios A') yesterday the holy relics of Saints John Chrysostom and Gregory the Theologian in what was described as a memorable ceremony at St. Peter's Basilica. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4047327.stm [see video footage of the ceremony] http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=496033 http://www.hurriyetim.com.tr/haber/0,,sid~1@w~3@nvid~502433,00.asp But all things being equal, wouldn't have been even nicer and more symbolic if the ceremony were to take place in Pharar (the seat of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople) as was originally planned and if the Turkish authorities were to formally accept the "Fener Rum Ortodoks Patrik" first as a 'legal person' and second as "Ek?menik Konstantinopoli Patrik"? Along these lines, wouldn't have been a truly commendable and virtuous gesture of good will if the Turkish authorities were to approve the re-opening of the Theological Seminary of Halki (Heybeliada), which, BTW, was just recently identified as an "internal threat" in a national security document reported by CNN T?rk? http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=495704 C.D.K. "Christos D. Katsetos" wrote: > The holy relics of Patriarchs Saints John Chrysostom and Gregory the > Theologian will be received directly from Vatican and brought home to > Phanari (Fener), Istanbul by a high level patriarchal delegation > headed by the Ecumenical Patriarch himself. > > Quoting verbatim from the official press release of the Patriarchate: > "Members of the Entourage of the Ecumenical Patriarch are their > Eminences Archbishop Gregory of Thyateira and Great Britain, > Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Myra and Metropolitan Anthimos of > Alexandroupolis, the Rev. Alex Karloutsos, the Rev. Deacon Andrew > Sofianopoulos, Professor Dr. Gregory Skalkeas, member of the Academy > of Athens and others. Moreover, His Eminence Archbishop Demetrios of > America will lead the group of representatives of the Greek-American > orthodox faithful to be present during the ceremony in St. Peter's > Basilica." > > The full text of the Press Release issued on 25/11/2004 can be > accessed in the URLs below: > http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?lang=en&id=327&tla=en [in > English] > http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?lang=gr&id=326&tla=gr [in > Greek] > http://www.ec-patr.gr/docdisplay.php?lang=gr&id=326&tla=tr [in > Turkish] > > C.D.K. > > Related links > http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=495639 > > ttp://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/2004-November/004363.html > > http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/2004-November/004374.html > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > List-Info: https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/mgsa-l > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041128/063c6ee5/attachment.html From gondicas at Princeton.EDU Mon Nov 29 15:01:25 2004 From: gondicas at Princeton.EDU (Dimitri Gondicas) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:52 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Princeton Hellenic Studies Workshop - December 3, 2004 Message-ID: <00bd01c4d667$59ffac00$f7e17080@princeton.edu> Princeton University Program in Hellenic Studies and Department of Art and Archaeology Workshop Between Byzantine and Baroque Traditions: Serbian Wall Painting in the Eighteenth Century Ljiljana Sevo lsevo@Princeton.EDU Institute for the Protection of Cultural-Historical Heritage, Republic of Srpska; Fulbright Visiting Fellow, Department of Art and Archaeology During the eighteenth century, especially in its second half, Serbian painting developed in two different directions. The majority of icons and wall paintings retained the Byzantine iconographic and stylistic traditions. Monuments in which wall paintings kept Byzantine characteristics in iconography and style could be considered in the context of specific social and political circumstances. Adherence to the Byzantine tradition was especially demonstrated in the elements of style. Baroque stylistic elements are always reduced to decorative details. Stylistic standardization is evident in eighteenth century Serbian wall painting created in the spirit of the Byzantine tradition, although it was the work of several separate painting workshops. Iconography of eighteenth century Serbian wall painting predominantly kept Byzantine characteristics, however, some changes appeared, due to the wider presence chiefly of Greek masters. Innovations in iconography also emerged by means of Russian icons and illustrations in printed Ukrainian books. Certain elements of these works were related to the desire on the part of donors to stress national identity, while others were related to Wallachian and Moldavian painting. Sometimes it is not possible to clearly define the sources of new elements in iconography of eighteenth century Serbian traditional wall painting. In this talk, some aspects of the last phase of Serbian post-Byzantine art will be presented. Regarding the provenance of masters, as well as the origins of new iconographic elements, a comparative investigation of eighteenth century art in the Balkans, will be proposed as the most promising approach. _____ Ljiljana Sevo holds undergraduate and M.A. degrees in Serbian Mediaeval Art from the Department of Art History of Belgrade University, Yugoslavia, where she earned her doctorate in December 2001. Her dissertation was a study of Serbian wall paintings created in the Byzantine tradition during the eighteenth century. Her post-doctoral research at Princeton University focuses on the determination of connections between eighteenth century wall ensembles painted across the Balkans, as well as the search for possible sources of certain innovations apparent in the last phase of post-Byzantine art. Ljiljana Sevo works at the Institute for the Protection of Cultural-Historical Heritage of the Republic of Srpska. She is also assistant professor of History of Mediaeval Art at the Faculty of Fine Arts in Banja Luka and at the Faculty of Philosophy in Sarajevo (Bosnia and Herzegovina). She is the author of two monographs, Monasteries and Wooden Churches of Banjaluka Eparchy (1996) and Lomnica Monastery (1999). Friday, December 3, 2004 2:30 p.m. Humanities Program Building, Room 103 _____ The HELLENIC STUDIES WORKSHOP provides an opportunity for post-doctoral fellows, visiting fellows, and graduate students to present their work-in-progress or recently published research. The aim is to encourage exchange of ideas across disciplines among Classical scholars, Byzantinists, and Modern Greek Studies specialists. DATES: Most Fridays, 2:30-4:00 p.m., during the term. Dates, speakers and titles will be announced in advance via e-mail. PLACE: Room 103, Humanities Program Building, Princeton University For further information about current events in Hellenic Studies, please refer to the calendar posted on our website: http://www.princeton.edu/~hellenic/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041129/58a205b9/attachment.html From gondicas at Princeton.EDU Mon Nov 29 16:33:19 2004 From: gondicas at Princeton.EDU (Dimitri Gondicas) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:53 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Princeton Hellenic Studies Workshop - Tuesday, November 30, 2004 Message-ID: <00f901c4d674$30a92b80$f7e17080@princeton.edu> Princeton University Program in Hellenic Studies Workshop Fourteenth Century Byzantine "Declassicizing" Metaphrases: Obscure Linguistic and Literary Purpose? John Davis jcd@princeton.edu Writer-in-Residence, Program in Hellenic Studies The appearance in fourteenth-century Byzantium of a number of translations into simpler language of various high-style texts has attracted scholarly comment, usually to the effect that they are evidence (to quote Hans-Georg Beck) of the desire of Byzantines in this age "not to allow any linguistic barrier to come between them and their own historical self-awareness." In this workshop it will be suggested that both specific and circumstantial evidence point to a particular time when these translations, or metaphrases, were made and why. They probably need to be linked to the troubled period of the regency of Anne of Savoy, widow of Andronikos III, and Patriarch Kalekas, overseeing the minority of her son, John V Palaiologos, in the 1340s. The "declassicizing" translations of the histories of Anna Komnene and Niketas Choniates and of the speculum principis of Nikephoros Blemmydes do not represent a spontaneous expression of the desire of ordinary Byzantines to attain a clearer understanding of their historical and cultural background, thus reflecting - it could be claimed - a kind of Byzantine equivalent to the revolutionary developments taking place in Italian letters in the same century; rather, they constitute a curious by-product of the desperate attempts of a small, threatened social group to hold on to political and economic power and privilege. Some copies of the folios of the manuscripts containing the text of the metaphrase of Niketas Choniates' History will be presented to illustrate some of these points. _____ John Christian Davis studied English at St. Andrews University, and subsequently Medieval Greek at King's College London. He has lived in Athens since 1985, working as a translator and pursuing research in Byzantine language and literature. Davis's translations of early Greek vernacular poetry were read by Alan Bates at the Byzantine Festival London (1998), and his rendering of a lament on the Crusaders' sack of Constantinople (1204) was set to music by the English Orthodox composer John Tavener. His published translations include unfinished works by Cavafy, as well as other contemporary Greek poets. He was recently awarded his doctorate by the University of Ioannina for his dissertation on a fourteenth-century Byzantine text and its background. Tuesday, November 30, 2004 6:00 p.m. Humanities Program Building, Room 103 _____ The HELLENIC STUDIES WORKSHOP provides an opportunity for post-doctoral fellows, visiting fellows, and graduate students to present their work-in-progress or recently published research. The aim is to encourage exchange of ideas across disciplines among Classical scholars, Byzantinists, and Modern Greek Studies specialists. For further information about current events in Hellenic Studies, please refer to the calendar posted on our website: http://www.princeton.edu/~hellenic/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041129/a4484120/attachment.html From aleontis at umich.edu Tue Nov 30 08:54:25 2004 From: aleontis at umich.edu (Artemis Leontis) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:53 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] talks from Platsis Sympisium on Crete on U Michigan website Message-ID: <7DC44AEB-42F0-11D9-ACAF-0050E4160F4C@umich.edu> The Modern Greek Program at the University of Michigan is pleased to announce that the talks from this year?s 3rd Annual Platsis Symposium on the Greek Legacy can now be found on-line at the Modern Greek Program?s website by following the link : ?(Click on, or cut and paste, the link below to get to the Platsis Endowment section of our website) http://www.lsa.umich.edu/modgreek/platsis/ The Talks: ?The Island of Crete: Stepping Stone between East and West during Antiquity,? ? a talk given by Vance Watrous of the University of Buffalo. ?The Art and Culture of Crete: between Venice and Byzantium,? ? a talk given by Maria Georgopoulou of Yale University and the Gennadeios Library in Athens. ??Crete in between: Still the Middle of a Wine-Dark Sea,? a talk given by Louis Ruprecht of the Claremont School of Theology. We would like to thank everyone who made, ?CRETE?A Meeting Place of Cultures,? such a success, and we would like to acknowledge again our speakers and performers: Vance Watrous, Maria Georgopoulou, Louis Ruprecht, Maria Hnaraki, Yiannis Themelis, Kostos Filippakis, Gregory Manouselakakis, and the Levendoyenna Cretan Youth Dance Troupe. Much thanks as well to our co-sponsors: the Hellenic Student Association, the Pancretan Association of America, and the Foundation for Modern Greek Studies. We hope you enjoy experiencing the Platsis Symposium on Crete afresh through the presentation of these talks. ? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2269 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041130/954219f4/attachment.bin From iioannou at hbs.edu Tue Nov 30 09:30:13 2004 From: iioannou at hbs.edu (Ioannis Ioannou) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:53 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] Pathetic Message-ID: The maximum of our demands ... "a better wording of the recognition of Cyprus by Turkey" ... http://www.politis.com.cy/cgibin/hweb?-A=14859&-V=brnews&-w= Best, Ioannis Ioannou Doctoral Student PhD Business Economics Harvard Economics Dept and Business School Boston, MA 02163 www.businessdoc.org www.people.hbs.edu/iioannou "At bottom every man knows well enough that he is a unique being, only once on this earth; and by no extraordinary chance will such a marvelously picturesque piece of diversity in unity as he is, ever be put together a second time." Friedrich Nietzsche From rolandmo at pacbell.net Tue Nov 30 12:04:07 2004 From: rolandmo at pacbell.net (Roland Moore) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:53 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] CFP: Feminisms in central, eastern and south eastern Europe--Aspasia Message-ID: <20041130200407.16848.qmail@web51008.mail.yahoo.com> Cross-posted from H-SAE: Aspasia. International Yearbook for Women's and Gender History of Central, Eastern and South Eastern Europe We are pleased to introduce Aspasia, a refereed international yearbook for Women's and Gender History of Central, Eastern and South Eastern Europe. Aspasia will be published by Berghahn Books, New York and Oxford, starting in 2006. Its editors are Francisca de Haan (Central European University, Budapest), Maria Bucur (Indiana University) and Krassimira Daskalova (St. Kliment Ohridski University of Sofia). The editorial board consists of Gisela Bock, Elena Gapova, Jasmina Lukic, Natalia Pushkareva, Bonnie Smith, Natalie Zemon Davis and Anna Zarnowska. Call for papers: The first issue of Aspasia will be devoted to the theme of Women's Movements and Feminisms in Central, Eastern and South Eastern Europe. While there is an increasing interest in this important topic, with some exceptions (e.g. Russia) relatively little has been published in English about the history of women's movements or feminisms in the region on the basis of primary research. Moreover, there is hardly any international comparative research on this topic, either within the region or between countries of our region and other places. Among the questions that we hope the authors will pursue are the following: - Did feminism have a history of its own in Central, Eastern, and South Eastern Europe? - What was the role of nationalism and of religion in inducing or hindering the development of women's movements? - What was the relationship between feminism and socialism; feminism and anarchism; feminism and right-wing nationalism in the interwar period; and between feminism and liberalism in the context of the region? - Within which political cultures did women's movements and /or feminisms develop? - What aspirations did feminists in the region have? What did their feminist utopias look like? - What role did ethnic, class, and other differences among women play in women's activism? - How important were international connections and forms of cooperation, either within the region (the Little Entente of Women) or broader (the ICW, IWSA/IAW, WILPF, international socialist women's networks, other international feminist networks)? Which factors made these forms of international cooperation possible or problematic? - Were there significant similarities and or differences with women's movements and feminisms in other parts of the world? - For the more recent periods we are also interested in historical analyses based on oral history material. Articles using multi- and interdisciplinary approaches are most welcome, but they should have a historical dimension or use historical modes of analysis. We also look for articles dealing with contemporary/recent history. While submissions with a strong empirical focus would be welcome, we would look for articles written within an explicit theoretical framework and/or engaging with theoretical problems. Length of manuscripts: 8000 words maximally, not including the endnotes. For the Berghahn House Style Sheet American English please visit their website at www.berghahnbooks.com and then click on "info for authors". This is the direct link: www.berghahnbooks.com/index.php?pg=author_info The deadline for submitting the articles is: April 15, 2005. Please send your manuscript as a Word attachment to Francisca de Haan at dehaanf@ceu.hu or Maria Bucur at mbucur@indiana.edu From ec2268 at columbia.edu Tue Nov 30 15:09:39 2004 From: ec2268 at columbia.edu (ec2268@columbia.edu) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:53 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] ALTERNATE MINISTER OF CULTURE MS. PALLI-PETRALIA TALK AT COLUMBIA 12/08/2004 Message-ID: <1101856179.41acfdb3b5b8f@cubmail.cc.columbia.edu> The Program in Hellenic Studies at Columbia University & The Columbia University Hellenic Association present a lecture by Hon. Ms. Fanny Palli-Petralia Alternate Minister of Culture, Hellenic Republic "The Legacy of the Athens 2004 Olympic Games" on Wednesday, December 8th, 7:30 p.m. at the Columbia Law School, Jerome L. Greene Hall, Room 103 435 West 116th Street (on corner of 116th and Amsterdam Avenue) Reception to follow lecture For further information, please contact the Program in Hellenic Studies at 212 854 5758 From dkatseto at bellatlantic.net Tue Nov 30 08:26:40 2004 From: dkatseto at bellatlantic.net (Christos D. Katsetos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:53 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] On the 'controversial' map depicting 'unredeemed territories' of Macedonia Message-ID: <41AC9F3E.183C004F@bellatlantic.net> The publication by the Greek daily Eleftherotypia of the 'controversial' US State Department map depicting the 'unredeemed territories' of the so-called 'Aegean' (viz. Greek) Macedonia, is indeed, sensational and has justifiably heightened concerns amongst Helladic and diaspora Greeks, including members of our own Greek American community. http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=496592 In an unusually 'patriotic' journalistic mode, Eleftherotypia has now risen to the occasion putting on its front page the heart-rending title " KATECOMENH H MAKEDONIA MAS! [(they --i.e., the Americans-- claim that) our Macedonia is occupied!] http://www.enet.gr/online/online_text?c=110&id=48527340,56417644,70722284,77548972 But I sure hope that only the unwary were caught by surprise in this case. Certainly not a newspaper of the caliber of Eleftherotypia, which during the past 5 years has deployed an inspiring group of investigative reporters working painstakingly toward a critical reappraisal of the 'falsified' Greek historical perspective of the 'Macedonian question', and for the delineation of a ("Slav") "Macedonian minority" in Greece's northern prefectures [see below -- footnote*]. Some of us have expressed over the years grave concerns about key underlying issues confounding the relations between Greece and the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM). Some of these views have been addressed in good faith in MGSA-L. https://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/2003-October/002410.html Against this background, are we to surmise that the Greek press was all these years unaware of the fact that Skopje's intransigent demands for an exclusive right to the name of 'Macedonia' stems from a mainstream, state sponsored nationalist narrative promoted by irredentist circles at home and abroad? The extreme irredentism of certain expatriate organizations is reflected in the logo of the Macedonian Herald, the official publication of the United Macedonians Association of Canada. Of concern is not only the depiction of the Sun of Vergina, but rather the attached map etching [see logo at the adjacent URL] http://www.unitedmacedonians.org/newspaper/ The logo in question --not unlike the controversial State Department map-- represents an adaptation of the (in)famous "United Makedonja" map model, which made its debut in FYROM's middle school History and Geography textbooks during the school year 1992-1993. http://uranus.ee.auth.gr/new/eng/macedonia/kofos/fig3.html Unfortunately, to date there is no evidence that the "United Makedonja" map and related texts http://uranus.ee.auth.gr/new/eng/macedonia/kofos/fig3.html have been removed from the school textbooks in FYROM. Nor is there a political will or an incentive for Skopje to engage in a meaningful negotiation for a mutually acceptable name accurately reflecting the geographic make up of the country. Under the circumstances, there is no compelling reason for Skopje to abandon its lingering irredentist aspirations and long term visions for a "Greater Macedonia" http://uranus.ee.auth.gr/new/eng/macedonia/kofos/ with a strong footing in the unredeemed 'Aegean Macedonia' http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Opinion/comm_20030710Kofos.html . I should perhaps mention for the record that in contrast to FYROM, the Hellenic Republic has declared, 'magnanimously' and in no uncertain terms, that it has no territorial claims whatsoever with respect to its northern neighbor. In fact, Greece has long given up her obligations to the predominantly Vlach Hellenism of Monastir and Pelagonia at large [which is the true constituent Macedonian region of FYROM]. In view of current developments and potential permutations in the geopolitical landscape of SE Europe, the systematic information campaign (internet-based or otherwise) launched by the various "Macedonian human rights" NGOs and their affiliates will serve as an instrument of further agitation, effectively embittering the perennial strife and dragging Greece -slowly but surely- into an open-ended imbroglio. C.D.K. Footnote [*] See "TA MUSTIKA TOU BOURKOU" by the IOS group, which was published in Eleftherotypia on 7/7/2002 http://www.iospress.gr/ios2002/ios20020707a.htm http://www.maknews.com/html/articles/begalci/loverdos_ios.html http://www.florina.org/html/info_zora/info_zora_12_en.pdf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/public/mgsa-l/attachments/20041201/e83725d1/attachment.html From dkatseto at bellatlantic.net Tue Nov 30 20:17:25 2004 From: dkatseto at bellatlantic.net (Christos D. Katsetos) Date: Mon Dec 19 08:11:54 2005 Subject: [MGSA-L] The holy relics of Saints John Chrysostom and Gregory theTheologian will be received directly from Vatican afterall References: <41A546E1.9E3E83C1@bellatlantic.net> <41A93D7A.32D0E15A@bellatlantic.net> Message-ID: <41AD45D5.6256FC45@bellatlantic.net> Not surprisingly, the return of the holy relics of Saints John Chrysostom and Gregory the Theologian to Phanar* did produce shockwaves in Turkey after all...! http://www.mpa.gr/article.html?doc_id=496780 The Turkish authorities issued an advisory asking the invited guests not to attend a reception dinner to be given by US Ambassador Eric Edelman on the occasion of the visit of a US delegation of Arch?ns http://www.archons.patriarchate.org/ to Ankara as part of the entourage of Archbishop Demetrios to the Vatic